1 rep max for mass

[joekool]

Hello everyone, I have a scenario that I would like some input on.

My bodybuilding goal is mass. With the understanding that I already have a great diet and a good background of weight training, I want to discuss reps. For all my basic movements, bench, military press, squat and deadlifts, I use a 8:5:5:3:3:1 rep scheme. I'm not huge, but in good shape for my size although my chest is lagging, here's an example of last chest workout:

Bench Press
135 - 8
165 - 5
180 - 5 (little help on last rep)
185 - 3
190 - 2 (didn't get 3rd rep)
205 - 1


Now I keep a journal recording all my progress and this workout was exceptionally struggling. My one rep max progressively goes up 5 pounds a week for the past six weeks, granted I haven't worked out prior to that in several months. Now my question, is this a good workout for mass? This workout does NOT leave me sore. I've worked out with other methods such as higher reps (6 - 8) but want the best results for mass. Should I try a traditional 6 rep max sets? If anyone can post their rep scheme I would appreciate it. Again, I'm only interested in mass.

P.S. - which is better for chest gains - Pec Dex or Bench Press

[buff151]

I posted a very detailed description of what rep scheme produces what body type. For the most part, 4-6 reps produces mass, and 10-20, or even up to 50-100, produces defintion and muscular endurance. However, it is better to do rep schemes on a cycle that includes high rep exersizes also. I myself am going for muscle mass also, and this is one of the schemes I have had great success on:
week1 15-20 reps
week2 8-10 reps
week3 4-6 reps
week4 15-20 reps
week5 8-10 reps
week6 4-6 reps
This is just one of the rep schemes I have used. It is good to change though. Do not keep spinning your wheels on a routine or rep scheme that is not working. Change it if you are at a stand still. I see that you are on a pyramid.
pyramid example
215x10
295x6
305x4
315x1

The pyramid style is the way in which powerlifters train. You can do an increasing or decreasing pyramid. A decreasing pyramid decreases the weight each set to keep the reps up:
215x10
205x10
195x10
185x10

If I were you, every other week I would do a decreasing pyramid, or at leats do higher reps than the previous week. I firmly believe in the cycle though, as I listed earlier. In this system you gradually increase the reps each week (or decrease) and then start all over in 3 weeks.

For the majority of the time, however, do low rep exersizes for muscle mass. But, throw in some high rep exersizes in there also.
scott

[Alex(AJ)]

1) 1 rep maxes for bodybuilders are pointless

2) 4-6 is usually ideal for mass&strength

3) doing that many sets for bench is pointless. do a few warmups with just the bar, then like 145, then start into your working sets- 2working sets/exercise

4) soreness does not equal growth

e.g., chest routine:

2set flat bench w/ chains
1set pause press
2set incline db press
2set floor press w/ chains
2set leaning-forward dips

there ya go, basic and hardcore, guaranteed to work

[ChrisH]

I am new to weight lifting but have asked similiar questions and been reading a lot about it lately. For mass building, a rep range between 8-12 is best with moderately heavy weights. Reps that get into the range of 4-6 and below are more for building strength, rather than mass, although you will get some mass with strength.

Personally here is a sample of what I do. Keep in mind as mentioned I am new to lifting. I finally have a program I like and have finally tweaked all of the little problems out of it. I just started it this week.

For chest this is what I do (same rep/set scheme for all exercises, just less weight depending on exercise, obviously)

My 1RM= 120. The weight for this program is about 80% of 1RM, which is ideal apparently for mass.

Week 1:
Flat Bench - Set 1 - 95 X8 | Set 2 - 95 X4
Then I do incline bench press
Then flies
Then I hit the triceps.

With each given week I try to add another rep to each set (e.g - week 2 I will do 95 X9 for set 1 and 95 X5 for set two). That extra rep adds up to roughly an addition of 5 lbs per week.

I only rest 45sec between each set. That is why there is a four rep deficite from set 1 to set 2. That is all I can manage out with that short rest period. I subtract 4 reps from whatever I do in set one and do that # reps for set 2. For someone like you who is at this longer, you may can do more, however. BTW -- 45sec is apparently the ideal rest period when it comes to building mass. It keeps the pump going, which is what you want when adding mass. I also only do 2 sets. Most people on this board advocate 2 sets and the less is more idea. MOST if not all who advocate that idea on this board have great results as well.

[buff151]

I disagree. Although 4-6 is the target rep scheme for body builders, 1 rep max can be helpful. They cause extrenious strain on the muscle, and will give a a slight benefit that regular reps cannot give. I suggest throwing in some forced negatives into your routine every now and then too. As for 6 sets of bench press, thats ok as long as your first set is a warm up set. You should vary your presses every few weeks too.
bb bench press-->bb incline press
db incline press-->db bench press
and so on.
Lots of isolation exersizes are not needed, but I have actually had some success with them. You might try a chest workout as follows
3xbench press
3xincline db press
2xdecline press
2xincline flies
For massing, the pressing, compound movements tend to be more beneficial, but i throw in isolation exersizes in my workouts too.
scott

[buff151]

Oh I'm sorry, but I also disagree with 45 seconds as the ideal resting period. If you think about it, if you rest from 3-4 minutes, you are going to be able to lift more due to the longer stint of recovery; Heavier weight=quicker calling on the red fast, red slow, and white twitch fibers. That is why I believe that a resting period of anywhere between 3-4 minutes is best when doing low rep, 70% 1rm and above repetions. It all has to do with your rep amounts and intensity though.
scott

[joekool]

How will I judge progress? With this current rep scheme I add 5 pounds to each set next bench workout. Whatever I fail on I do again the next cycle. With the 4-6 rep range, how will I be sure I'm hitting failure? I mean, with monday's 205, that was a struggle. Took about 7 seconds to get it up on my own which I relate to a good workout. If I use 80% my 1 rep max, and do 5 reps...should I keep going for 6, or save my energy so I can do 90% my 1 rep max for 3? I feel that the latter set will be more beneficial. These types of questions drive me crazy.

[Alex(AJ)]

Originally posted by buff151
I disagree. Although 4-6 is the target rep scheme for body builders, 1 rep max can be helpful. They cause extrenious strain on the muscle, and will give a a slight benefit that regular reps cannot give.

1 rep maxes stress the nervous system and kick the snot out of it, making it need more time to recover. unless you're powerlifting there's no benefit to them

[ChrisH]

If I were you, I'd find out your one rep max by getting an amount of weight and lifting it as many times as possible. Say grab 180lbs and lift it as many possible times. say you lift 180lbs for 6 reps = a 210 or so 1RM. 80% of that 210 1RM is aprox. 170 pounds or so. You should be able to lift that 170lbs about 8 times. If you want to stay in the 4-6 rep range, which it sounds like you do, then you need to up the weight so that you are really stressing those muscles with the 4th rep. With a 210 1RM, you can lift about 190lbs for 4 reps. Start with that.

Good 1RM Calculator

[mustang GT]

I think resting 2-3 minutes between exercises and sets is ideal.

[Fudomyo]

joekool, your reps look fine. Just use dumbbells. Bench is great for shoulders and triceps, as you are finding out.

DB Bench Press

[ChrisH]

Originally posted by joekool
With the 4-6 rep range, how will I be sure I'm hitting failure?

If you are lifting enough weight, on the 4th rep, it will be hard to get the weight up. If you are aiming for 4 reps, you shouldn't be able to do 5 reps. Your 4th rep should be the last you can get out (i.e - failure). If you find you can get more than 4 out, then up the weight until you cannot.

[buff151]

Preach on brotha, exactly right. up the weight until the reps match. I still believe that doing a 1rm every once and a while is good for gaining stength. More strength=more weight able to lift=more mass.
scott

[DannyBoy]

I have found that the 10-8-6-4-1 rep range works the best for me and my work out partner. I went from benching 280 to 375 in roughly three months. I do take the suppliments NO2, Myoplex, Amino Fuel and Vlanadyl Sulfate and I work out six days a week. Basically though with all the responses it's pretty easy to tell that what works for one person may not work for another. You have to have the patience to take the time and figure out what works for you.

[ChrisH]

Originally posted by DannyBoy
I have found that the 10-8-6-4-1 rep range works the best for me and my work out partner. I went from benching 280 to 375 in roughly three months. I do take the suppliments NO2, Myoplex, Amino Fuel and Vlanadyl Sulfate and I work out six days a week. Basically though with all the responses it's pretty easy to tell that what works for one person may not work for another. You have to have the patience to take the time and figure out what works for you.

Wow!! That is an amazing strength increase from 280 to 375. that is about 7lbs per week. I hope I can get results like that. I was looking at 5lbs per week, I questioned if that was realistic. Appears it may be. I am on week one of my program --> Just working out all of the little tweaks from it.

I agree 100% with your statement about the varied reponses/opinions. If there is one thing I have learned, it is that there are many different opinions on what is the best way to lift weights for best results. The fact that there are so many varied opinions shows that there are various ways to lift and get results. I think it is up to everyone to design a program for themselves they like and stick with it. I have finally made myself do that.