am I still a beginner?

[Bajwa_99]

ok so I'm new to this website, and I really need to get some questions off my back. I've been working out since July with the common split in days: Chest/triceps,back/biceps,legs/shoulders. I just want to know, despite working out for 5 months, how will I know I am no longer a beginner and be able to do the "intermediate workouts", this is my routine for now.

note:my goal is to gain muscle mass (bigger body) and strength

sunday: back and biceps

-iso-lateral hi row (machine): warmup(90), medium (140), 3 large (215)
-rowing bench: warmup(45),medium(80),3 large (105)
-lat pull:warmup(50),medium ( 85), 3 large(110)
-cable pulldowns(biceps): warmup, 3 large(125)

monday: cardio

-heavy bag workout (light rounds)



tuesday: Chest and triceps

-bench press:1 warmup set(45),1 medium (105),3 large (120)
-incline dumbell press: warmup set (20), medium (30), 3 large (40)
-flys:warmup (15),3x20
-french press: warmup (25),medium (35), 2-3 large (45)

wednesday: Cardio

-heavy bag workout (heavy rounds)

thursday: legs and shoulders

-squats (no weights since im still a newbie at this and trying to get proper form down): 5 sets, 10-15 reps
-leg extension (machine): warmup, medium, 3 large sets
-seated calf raise: warmup (80),medium (115), 3 large (170)
-military press: warmup (45), medium (55), 2 large (85)
-shoulder shrugs: warmup(35),medium(55), 3 large (80)

friday: rest day

sat: repeat day 1

(note i work out every second day at they gym, so just wondering if I do this plan for week 1, how would i go about it on week 2,3 etc., because i dont want to end up doing day 1 routine twice in row sat-sun)

this is what i've been doing basically for 5 months, i usually switch it around a bit every month (taking out an exercise i dont seem to be getting anywhere in, and adding one to replace it). I'm also wondering about the consistency of sets, is an exercise considered a failure if a spotter needs to help you reach the 10 rep max. for all 3 sets? because this problem usually happens on chest and triceps day, I finish bench press with the heaviest amount i can lift, proper form and right amount of sets and all, but when i move onto dumbell press my muscles are still fatigued and i cant hit my max so its pretty discouraging, am i doing something wrong in term of sets?

also im still wondering about this question too...my workouts usually last about 1-1.5hour, if i were to workout for 3 hours or so, would i be sure to make even bigger gains?

[Bajwa_99]

I forgot to also mention, I've taken the week off and am ready to go back tomorrow, so i might be able to lift a bit more then what i've wrote down

[threenorns]

okay, first off, let's make your routine more efficient.

there is NO NEED to do a warmup set for each and every exercise. think about it: your chest is warmed up already, why do it again? wasted energy. by the same token, one single warmup set just isn't going to do it - your muscles aren't primed with blood, your joints aren't ready to receive the load - by the time you finish your work set, your body's only just getting ready.

this a *proper* warmup routine for the weights' you've listed, rest TWO MINUTES between EACH SET - no excuses:

bar x 12
bar x 10 - do them faster, with a bit more "oomph!"
65 x 5
85 x 3
105 x 1
125 x 1

now you're ready to do your work sets - yes, 125lbs and you should be able to get at least 4 reps. stay at 125 until you can do three sets of 6 reps before putting it up to 130. should take two, maybe three weeks. after this, it's work sets all the way - by that, i mean heavy sets. no warmup or medium or whatever.

follow the same format for all your workouts, which should always start with the heaviest compound movement (deadlift, squat, bench press are the Big Three musclemakers - if you do no other exercises at all, doing these three alone will give you results).

5 sets is too much, imo - drop it to three sets with enough weight you actually have to WORK for. doing squats with no weight at all is pretty much useless because the funny hting about squats, deads, and bench press is the nature of the game changes every time the weight changes. you can be the most perfect bodyweight squatter in the world, but as soon as there's weight on your shoulders, it's totally different. get some weight on the bar, even if it's just the bar alone for now. get a staffmember at your gym to critique your form, videotape it and post it here, or even hire a trainer to teach you just deadlifts and squats. it's well worth the investment.

make friday a cardio day and saturday a rest day or make both friday and saturday rest days.

if you're running out of steam on subsequent sets, it's because you're not resting long enough. you need to rest AT LEAST two minutes, preferably three (i'll rest up to ten minutes, depending how much the exercise took out of me and how i'm feeling).

you don't go for 'x' number of reps if you can't do them. the spotter should only be giving you a tap over the sticking point, not actually helping you finish the rep(s). if you can only do 5, then five is what you do. next week, try for six. once you hit ten, you put the weight up and do as many as you can again.

personally, on bench press, ten is too many. i'd go with the 4 to 6 rep range.

one hour workout is fine unless you're resting long, in which case it could go longer. but an hour solid activity is about all anyone can handle without getting exhausted and de-motivated.

remember: gains are not made in the gym, but during the rest periods between workouts.

[Bajwa_99]

thanks for the advice three!

but just one thing i want to know you said

"make friday a cardio day and saturday a rest day or make both friday and saturday rest days."

I want to try and hit the gym 4 times a week instead of just 3, so how would i put in that extra day into this plan? can i do both cardio and weight lifting on friday, because im just wondering how other people who go like 5-6 days a week manage it, do they do the 1 day on (gym), 1 day off (cardio) thing or what?

[threenorns]

me, i hit the weights three days a week.

those who go four days a week just split things up finer:

first, NEVER do chest on monday. that's Universal Chest Day, which means you'll be fighting for bench press space while the crickets play on the squat racks.

this could be an example of a routine:

sunday - chest
monday - legs and abs
tuesday - cardio
wednesday - rest
thursday - back
friday - shoulders and arms
saturday - rest

another idea is to do an upper/lower split and repeat it twice through the week.

if you look through here, there are a number of routines posted.

[gcs118]

Judging from your post I'd still say you are very much a beginner. The more you lift and read, you'll realize what works best and what doesn't - most of it comes with experience. I know three mentioned your warm ups need modification, that's for sure. I think if you want to progress more, you will really need to get off of the machines and cables and work with free weights. Compound movements are where your money should be. For example, on back day, deadlifts, BORs, and pull ups would be much more efficient use of time as opposed to all those isolation machines. Don't worry though, I mean we all started somewhere, it takes years of consistent lifting to know what you're doing. You've got a good start so far.

[LINDA]

From the sounds of it you are ready to crank things up a notch. 3-6 months is a good amount of time to spend building a base of conditioning. I think your workouts are too long. 1.5 hours and you want to increase it to 3???

Try to come up with a plan that has you in and out in one hour. Five months squatting with no weights will get you nowhere. What's holding you back on getting the form correct? Get some help if you can't figure it out on your own. It's not that hard!

You know there are a lot opf people at different levels with different goals they are striving for on this forum. You might try reading and searching for stuff in the online journals and other forums then come back and ask questions about certain things you see.

I know when I made the jump, I tried sample routines that were in the back of the Gold's Gym Bodybuilding Book. From there I modified things and experimented. At the time I was at a private gym with very supportive competive bodybuilders and powerlifters. Sharing ideas is great.

[Bajwa_99]

hi

ya i don't want to increase the amount of time to 3h i was just wondering is it usually more beneficial to a person who puts in 3h then a guy a who puts in 1h? because i see people at the gym for hours on end, don't these guys get tired?

ok so i understand i need a better warmup routine, but as for the machines, are they useless then in gaining muscle mass and power?? I heard if you get stuck at a plateau, it's good to switch over to them, is this true? so instead of doing the machines what exercise using free weights would u suggest be replaced for..

iso-lateral hi row machine

leg extension machine

seated calf raise machine

also, is the rowing bench a good machine to use though? as well as what about the lat pull exercise, where you pull down on the cable to the back of your neck, is that good?. Plus what are BORs?

[threenorns]

BOR = bent-over rows done with a barbell.

NEVER EVER pull to the back of your neck, always pull to the front. pulling and pressing from behind the neck puts a helluva a lot of strain on your rotator cuff muscles and acromioclavicular joint (the bony bit at the point of your shoulder). always pull and press to the front - it's just as effective as behind the neck but is a lot safer.

seated calf raise - donkey press is better, imo.

leg extensions are shyte. the shearing force exerted by the machine causes a world of cumulative hurt you'll pay for in future years. scrap it completely and make sure you're doing squats. if you MUST target quads, use the leg press.'

iso-lateral hi row machine - i can't even begin to figure out what that is. seated cable rows - that's the ticket, or pullups. if you can't do pullups, use the assisted pullup station or do pull-downs.

those guys you see in the gym for hours and hours on end are what we call "overtrainers". they're doing hundreds of sets and thousands of reps and in six months, they'll wonder why they just can't get any stronger.

as for being a beginner, i first hit the gym over fifteen years ago. just this past march, i returned after ten years out of it. i still consider myself a beginner. one of my friends is a professional trainer who makes damned good money training powerlifters and bodybuilders - he'll be the first to tell you he'd a beginner (and he's been at it for nearly 30 years!). no matter how long you're in the gym, you'll always be a beginner because there's always something new.

you want muscle and bulk, right? take a look at the routine i use, which is a basic powerlifting-type routine - basic moves, killer results: http://www.discussfitness.com/forums...-27565-37.html .

the bottom line is: the more weight you're moving with good form, the better the results you'll get. squatting five times with 100 pounds will get you much better results than squatting ten times with 50 pounds.

You don't need to spend hours in the gym. Since you've been at it for a few months you are probably ready to cut down to 20-40 minutes in the gym spent efficiently lifting heavy weights for a few reps and build some serious muscle. Go here, register, do the reccomended workouts. come back here to DF, keep a training log so we can see your amazing progress. http://www.ast-ss.com/max-ot/max-ot_intro.asp Keep us up to date on how it's going for you.

BTW after 2 years of consistant training and some definite improvements in myself I still consider myself a beginner so I keep my workouts simple, short, effective. It works.

[Bajwa_99]

hey there thanks for all your help guys, I just want to get a last few things cleared up,

I was checking out the max-ot workout routines and Im pretty enthusiastic in trying them out, but I'm a bit skeptical in terms of reps, 4-6 for just 2-3 sets?? that seems kind of less don't you think so? I was under the assumption for all these months, that if you want to get a bigger body and powerful muscles, you need to hit the 10 rep max always with heavy weights when doing all your exercises, cuz that's what some people at the gym i go to tell me.

nonetheless im still gonna give those workouts a shot.

also I have a question about abs. Is it true you have to include them in every workout? isn't that overtraining?

plus about cardio, is it alright to do it during the same day as your weight lifting day?

and about the machine iso-lateral hi row, its a machine where you have to get an overhand grip on the work bars, and then pull them down to your sides, it works out the back. Is this a good exercise machine then for the back?

[threenorns]

TRUST ME: you'll get great results *fast* with max-ot if you don't go pissing around with the sets and reps.

YES - 4 to 6 reps and 2 to 3 sets will give you bigger muscles. the ppl at your gym are wrong - it's different for everybody but as a general rule, the heavier the weight you use with good form, the stronger you'll get and the bigger your muscles will be (ever see a scrawny powerlifter?). i train three days a week and on all my major exercises, it's 4 to 6 reps, two sets.

keep cardio well separated from your weights by a minimum eight hours - twelve would be better.

i can't say if it's good or not - never used one.

[gcs118]

I've used the machine your talking about Bajwa when I first started lifting. I used it for awhile and it did give decent results, but as you progress you will find other things work even better.

If you want to get bigger and/or stronger, sets of 10 is NOT the way to go. Putting maximum effort into 2 or 3 sets of 4-6 is where you will want to be. There is a very common incorrect way of thinking in that the more you lift, the more you'll grow. Oftentimes, all you need to do is lift LESS or take time off to get stronger or bigger.

[threenorns]

ahem - the more weight you lift, the more you'll grow; you just can't do them a dumpload of times.