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Old 17-May-05, 06:03 PM   #16
tH3NinJ4!!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by threenorns
sounds to me like you're falling into the "more is better, most is best" trap.

the problem is that growth does not occur in the gym, but in the rest period between.

no rest = no growth and a condition called overtraining.
The problem with that statement is that you spend alot of time resting and very little of that time is growing. Its not as if your building a huge amount of lean body mass every rest period. That is why programs standardized and based on one variable are born to fail and that is why people stagnate.

For a 'healthy' male/female with good conditioning their muscles are recovered shortly after training. How short? Try anywhere from 36-48hrs after a training session. The rest of the time you are basicly sitting there doing nothing thinking your growing.

Kc
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Old 17-May-05, 06:10 PM   #17
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I made this post yesterday on another forum:

Quote:
Mentzer was full of non-intellectual jargo. The problem with HIT and the same problem with Max-ot is these programs are standardized and based on one single factor. During the time you train in the gym you bust your ass off w/ low frequency and during the time that your off your 'hoping' to be growing the full time. In fact your not growing your just wasting time when you could be training.

The problem people have with training with frequency is they dont understand the relationship and how to mainuplate the volume and intensity accordingly. That is the key to a successfull program. Bran Haycock was the first one to actually make such a thing 'mainstream' so to speak. However Bryans program is only as good as the individual reading it is. Its still a cookie cutter program, which is fine if your a novic lifter. A superior program is taking ideas, research, and practical applications and applying them according to your goals.

As for what stimulates growth, I'll go out on a limb and tell you just about everything does. Here is where things get tricky and here is where periodization is effective. It will allow you to apply static training, eccentric training, training failure (brief during the week), squatting twice a week, doing drop sets, rest pause, etc in a single wk. Those are all very 'known' programs and all do produce some form of hypertrophy or signal hypertrophy in some way. Now the key is understanding how to apply them all accordingly in your training. For example Peter Sisco is famous for Static or Isometric training. That is wonderful but he falls in the same boat as Mentzer and them do. You cant design a single program based on one single variable.

Kc
12 Page Discussion on HIT:
http://www.fortifiediron.net/invisio...showtopic=6685

Quote:
1. Motor Unit= Motor Neuron

2. What is the stimulus threshold in the first place?

The motor neuron or unit is located in the brain around the motor cortex. They are sent down thru the motor junction which is the nerve line to the individual fiber. This causes a excitment of the SV and a neurotransmitter is actived which signals the arcoplasmic reticulum to realease the calcium ions. Next the cross bridges attach and the rigor complex is created. APT and ADP are the main energy producing chemicals in this that will continue eatch pull in the cross bridge to and will cause the whole muscle to contract. The problem is our bodies will not active all of the fibers in the muscle for 'fear'. We have certain neuro patterns and process that stop this. The old soviet union attempted to create a smart drug to by pass the mechanisms that stop this and they did to a degree. However what happen next was a serious amount of injuries and ruined lifters. The problem now was there was an over production of motor neurons and the motor end plate was damaged. This is similar as to what happens when training to failure at constant however your not training the fibers you are just firing more motor neurons then what is needed. This is pretty much known as 'overkill'.

btw that site does not open for me. Id suggest you buy Supertraining by Mel Siff Its a rather indepth book on the muscular complex.

Edit: Your also miss understanding what most people are saying the "all or nothing" principle is. Its not based on all the fibers its based on one single fiber. Either the 'whole' fiber will contract or it wont. Look up the Rigor Complex.

Kc

***
I didnt feel like retying everything out. That is of limited value however, if you want more more information on how to effectivly apply failure trianing to your program and why and how to much is a bad thing: http://www.avantlabs.com/magmain.ph...D=19&pageID=238

Kc
I dont cover much about bbing in this and more strength, it still gives a good explaination of how the Fitness Fatigue Principle or Dual Factor Method Works:


Quote:
Systemic Overreaching and Hormonal Fluctuation

Somewhat related to concentrated loading is the idea of overreaching and hormonal fluctuation. This is based on the concept of the fitness-fatigue model, in which fatigue accumulates over time during periods of stressful training and dissipates just as gradually. An understanding of the relationship between volume and intensity is necessary in order to “shock” the system as a whole. Due to the extreme disruption of homeostasis, the end result is a very pronounced training effect. Some will argue that frequency is a key factor when training for strength. Increased frequency would ideally be used during the loading periods of one’s training cycle, but is more related to overall volume and is less of an issue in itself.


This technique is implemented by using short-term loading and unloading cycles, during which volume and intensity peak, placing a large stress on the body for a brief period. After this, a tapering period is imposed, which allows the body time to recover. Results in performance are generally best observed in eight-week cycles during which weeks three and four are loading weeks, with weeks six to eight used for unloading. The more frequent the peaks and tapers, the more pronounced the effect over the long term. Note that this is very strenuous and should not be performed for continuous cycles.


By effectively managing both the volume and intensity without overtraining (imbalance between stress and adaptation), one can elicit a very strong adaptation in the body that will remain for some time.


During the loading phase, the body’s stress levels are increasing. This will cause maximal stimulation to all the relevant systems within the body. Once the body is optimally stimulated, it enters into a state of mild overtraining. This is where the term 'overreaching' comes into play.


According to the fitness-fatigue model, the stress accumulated from the heavy loading phase will cause fatigue. This fatigue, if induced in brief intervals, will also bring with it a simultaneous increase in fitness levels/strength. At this point the lifter should unload, lest he or she take the fatigue beyond the temporary state at which it can be beneficial.


During the deloading period, training is sharply curtailed. This reduces the amount of total stress placed on the body, allowing the body to recover. In so doing, the fatigue induced by the bout of overreaching dissipates while the strength and fitness levels are maintained.


Other than certain biochemical markers, identifying your limit through trial and error is the most ideal way to gauge this. The Testosterone/Cortisol ratio and the Glutamate/Glutamine ratio are the most common indicators of overtraining, but testing them regularly is expensive and impractical. Research has shown that the optimal degree of change in Testosterone and Cortisol ratios are around 10-30% before a period of deload should be done. Lon Kilgore, Ph.D has found that with Glutamine and Glutamate ratios the following guidelines are practical and optimal when attempting to measure overreaching and overtraining:

** Glutamine/Glutamate Ratio and Overtraining
GN/GT ratio >5.88 = Normal
GN/GT ratio >3.58 <5.88 = Adaptation
GN/GT ratio <3.58 for <2 weeks = Overreaching
GN/GT ratio <3.58 for >2 weeks = Overtraining

How much stress the body can take before it reaches its breaking point is highly individual. Due to several neural and metabolic differences, not all methods will suit each individual. For example, many Greek Olympic lifters are able to load for up to 3 weeks before deloading. Few individuals are able to sustain that amount of bodily stress without overtraining.
Quote:
Practical Management of Volume and Intensity

Ok, so now that all of that technical mess is out of the way, we can get to some practical application(s). The trick now is to tie it all together in order to create usable programs. Based on the reading above, this isn't as hard as it might seem.

The first thing we need to do is find a way to effectively control volume.

For this article, we're going to use training load, which is also called volume, training volume, tonnage, and probably a few other things. This quantity is sets * reps * weight used for each exercise. Training load is relevant to the specific part and/or movement being trained, as well as its overall effect on the body.


In part one we talked about controlling the volume from week to week, as well as from phase to phase. This is where your training volume will come into play. Keeping tabs on the volume according to each part and lift, as well as the totals, will be key to your planning. By ensuring that you at least have a ballpark idea of where you are from week to week, you'll be able to manipulate your training effectively.


Working hand in hand with volume is going to be intensity (as in magnitude of load, not how hard you think you're working). The easiest way to guage intensity is as a percentage of your one-rep maximum in a given lift. If you regularly attempt one-rep maximums, this will be no problem. However, not many people will know this for exercises that aren't trained competitively (at least, they shouldn't). The use of a rep calculator is recommended in this case to get a ballpark idea. Again, it doesn't have to be exact. Recommended loading zones are going to be in the 80-88% range most of the time, with occasional forays into the 90%> and the <70% ranges.
Shabing!

Kc
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Old 17-May-05, 06:11 PM   #18
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And for my a bit of indepth on 'whats going on in my crazy ass head!'

Quote:
When I first toyed with this stuff I thought "Hot damn, this is brillant!" now Im finding alot of the stuff I've done in the past is flawed in itself. This is where I've gained knowledge and where I apply it as I understand it and learn it.

I took a model for strength training and attempted to carry it over to bodybuilding. I took the applied bbing principles and produced a wave program similar to that of a hormonal wave program for PL/OL. The program itself worked very well, but the draw back was its to sharp and to drop off to be applied often. So does that make it worthless? Not a chance at all! This type of programing and organziation would be wonderful for 'ehanced' people but not the majority if they are wanting to do it for an extented period of time.

So now, I'm toying with a longer program with a longer mesocycle w/ different microcycle stages. Basicly will be in 3 different phases set up similar to the 5x5 model i've posted, expect a big more ratical. (Volume;Deloading;Intensity;Volume;Deloading)

I'll dig up the old and original program I designed in a second.

Kc
I'll post up the MadCow1 5x5 in my next post, I got to dig it up.

Kc
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Old 17-May-05, 06:14 PM   #19
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Madcow's Description of the 5x5

This is a cut/paste from an old post of mine at Fortified Iron. I'm going to rewrite some of it since it was done in haste years ago. BionicBC who started this thread had it in the first post but when we added the table of contents it got erased probably due to space constraints (sorry about that man!) so I've put it here. Big thanks to CasualBB for doing the edit work for me so that this stuff is more accessible to people (this is now page 20 so expecting someone to read the entire thread is a bit over the top by this point).


This is a variation of Bill Starr's classic 5x5. Bill is without doubt one of the best strength coaches ever, serving at multiple universities, pro teams, and holding records in both PL and OL. His articles are frequently reprinted in Milo, have appeared in Ironman for years (they might still be in there periodically), and are generally all over the strength and conditioning world. His book on training for football, 'The Strongest Shall Survive', is a classic for coaches, players, and any strength athlete - you can pick it up at www.ironmind.com. This dual factor variation of the program is used very frequently by one of the current top strength coaches who posts under the name Johnsmith182 at Meso. This program and variations are very much in common use all over the place even being common to elite athletes for part of the year (generally offseason which is less skill specific and more concerned with overall performance foundation) - this is not outdated in any way but merely what works. This program is very effective at increasing strength and lean body mass, so much so that it is avoided like the plague by athletes close to a weight class limit (to avoid gaining significant weight fairly severe dietary restriction is often required). I honestly don't know of a better program for adding lean body mass to an athlete. For those unused to this type of training natural gains of 10-20lbs are common as well as drastic increases in the core lifts. At the same time, it builds an excellent strength foundation for general athletics so it works wonderfully for an athlete as well as a BBer. This program and variations have been used by innumerable athletes for over 30 years with huge success - it just plain does not fail. It works every time and works well. It is also a very clear and easy illustration of dual factor theory the application of which will result in far better and more consistent gains for those who are inexperienced with it. So by running this program you get gains and learn, sort of a "teach a man to fish..."

If you've just randomly come to this topic or been provided a link - there is a large source thread and table of contents further clarifying a lot of this here: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=375215

Before beginning it is useful to know your 1 rep max (and use a table to figure your 5 rep max) or more ideally your real 5 rep max in each lift. You can base your 5x5 max off your 5 rep max just by cutting back a bit. If you don't know this - it might be useful to test your lifts first or start light and allow for some flexability in the weekly planning so you can make adjustments on the fly as you ramp the weights week to week to accross the board records in the final weeks of the volume phase. Don't overly stress on this - it's easier than it sounds and once you've run it once, subsequent cycles fall right into place.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CORE DESCRIPTION

Volume Phase 4 weeks
Deloading Period 1 week
Intensity Phase 4 weeks

Mon......Volume Phase...........................................De load/Intensity Phase
Squat.......5x5................................... ..............................3x3
Bench.......1x5................................... ..............................1x3
Row.........1x5................................... ...............................1x3

Wed......Volume Phase...........................................De load/Intensity Phase
Squat.......5x5 with 15-20% less than Monday.................drop this lift
Deadlift.....5x5.................................. ...............................3x3
Military......5x5................................. ................................3x3
Pullups.......5x5................................. ...............................3x3

Fri.........Volume Phase...........................................De load/Intensity Phase
Squat........1x5.................................. ..............................1x3
Bench........5x5.................................. .............................3x3
Row...........5x5................................. ..............................3x3

*5x5 & 3x3 = warm up to working set weight
**1x5 & 1x3 = pyramid weights through 5x5 or 3x3 with the final set being target set weight


Volume Phase - Weeks 1-4:
So 5x5 is 5 sets of 5 reps with working set weight (warm up to the target weight for the week and proceed through 5x5 with that weight). Where 1x5 is present you are pyramiding the weights upward each set to a target set weight for a single set of 5 (it's still 5x5 but each set gets heavier and your target set is the top set of 5). The exception is the Wednesday squat for 5x5 using somewhere between 10-20% less than the working weight on the Monday 5x5 workout (the Wed squat may increase less than the Monday squat over the ramping weeks - meaning it may start at 12% less and wind up at 22% less by the last record week if one needs some extra recovery). What you are doing is gradually increasing the target weights week to week so you wind up performing record lifts in the final two weeks of the volume phase (weeks 3/4 in this case). Keep in mind that you have separate targets for 5x5 and 1x5 even though they are the same lift (i.e. benchpress). The ramping is set separately for these and they are treated separately. It's a good idea to start conservatively as this gets fairly backbreaking and you'll be begging for week 5. The most common mistake is people starting too high. It's useful to start light and then be flexible either adding an extra week to the ramp up or moving your targets a bit as you feel your way. This is far easier in the intensity phase because you already have a reference - likewise the next time you run this workout, it'll be a no brainer. The main point in this phase is the volume. Lower the weight if need be but get the sets and reps in. If you fail on an exercise just carry the target weight forward into the next week. Some people who are very new to this might find it easier to run this phase for 6 weeks starting much lighter and building slowly. If your working weights for the deadlift are 2x bodyweight (meaning you are a 200lbs lifter and you'll be doing 400+ for 5x5 throughout the cycle) it's probably a good idea to do lower the volume on that lift to 3x5 in this phase.

Deloading Week - Week 5:
***for the vast majority of people, they will likely be better served using the alternative deload/intensity listed below***
On week 5 drop the Wednesday squat workout, begin using the Deloading/Intensity set/rep scheme (in parentheses), and keep the weight the same as your last week in the Volume Phase. In reality the whole intensity phase and this week are the same thing, I just break this week out because there is no weight progression so in reality after the volume phase the whole thing is deloading/intensity which for the purposes of this workout are synonymous. Also my 3x per week layout tends to get pretty aggressive so many find themselves fatigued again by the end so it kind of makes logical sense to break this period separately. Largely symantics.

Intensity Phase - Week 6-9:
***for the vast majority of people, they will likely be better served using the alternative deload/intensity listed below***
Everything is the same principal except that you use 3x3 and 1x3 setting records on week 8 and 9 (or the final 2 weeks of this phase). No Wednesday squatting. The important aspect of this phase is the weight increases. If you are burned out and you need an extra day here and there that's okay - this won't hurt you at all and unless you are feeling ripe it's beneficial. If you can't do all the work that's okay too. Just keep increasing the weight week to week. During this phase you'll be ramping the weights from your deloading week to your 3x3 and 1x3 records in the final 2 weeks. In this 3x per week pattern, start light once again and get a breather. Most people find themselves getting reloaded if they don't cut volume and take extra days. If you reload without getting an adequate deload first (that 1 week may not be enough) you will cripple your gains. Better to get 90% out of a training cycle than 10%. You'll learn a lot about your tolerance for volume loading and unloading here - there is no need to try to be a hero. Get some experience and the next time you run this you'll be spot on but you wind up feeling your way to a degree the first time.

Post Cycle:
Depending upon how you feel, it's probably a good idea to deload again before moving back into another volume phase if you ran the 3x per week like I outlined above. See the alternative schedule below and perform this light for 2 weeks working on speed/acceleration. If you ran the 2x alternate schedule below for your deload/intensity you can likely move straight back into another volume phase.

Alternative Deload/Intensity:
This is really the one that most people should be doing. If you don't handle the other correctly you can blow your program but I didn't want to switch it and confuse people.

Week 5 and on switch to 3x3 and drop the Friday workout altogether. Week 5 weights are the same as the final week of volume. Over the next 2-3 weeks increase increase the weight workout to workout if you get all 9 reps. If you don't get all the reps, week the weight constant. You'll likely be able to move straight back into another volume phase after this is complete.

Monday:
Oly squats: 3x3
Bench: 3x3
Rows: 3x3

Wednesday (or move this workout to Thursday if you'd like)
Light Oly Squats (70% of monday): 3x3
Deadlifts: 3x3
Military Press: 3x3
Chins:3x3

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OTHER PERTINENT INFORMATION

The Lifts:
Squats - these should be full range olympic style squats. Use the full range of your body - that means as low as you can go which for almost everyone is past parallel. If the top of your thighs aren't at least parallel it's for ****. If you think this is bad for your knees going low, you and whoever told you that are relying on an old wives tale. Anyone who knows the human body will tell you that below parallel is MUCH safer on the knees whereas parallel and above put all the stress right on them and don't allow proper transfer of the load to the rest of your body (this is how your body was designed). Read the sticky in the PL forum on squats for a more in depth explanation.
Deads - each rep is deweighted fully on the floor. No touch and go. This is called the 'dead'lift because the weight is 'dead' on the ground. You can touch and go warm ups but that's it.
Military - standing overhead presses. Supporting weight overhead is a fundemental exercise and stimulates the whole body.
Rows - 90 degrees and done dynamically (Accelerate the weight into your body - do not jerk it but constantly increase the pace like an oar through water).
Common Sense - this program has you train very hard and build quickly to heavy weights. If any of these compound lifts are new to you (like dynamic rowing from the floor) it is unsafe to subject yourself to this kind of unaccustomed work. Compound exercises have a way of finding weak links in the body - heavy lifting has a way of stressing these weak links. What this means is that the chance of injury is greatly increased. Spend some time working with the lift(s) before beginning a program that pushes you this hard.
The rest is self explanatory.

Learning about Your Tolerances/Setting Up Your 2nd Training Cycle:
This can be somewhat daunting to set your weights the first time you run this and for reasons already stated it's a lot better to be on the conservative side. Once you've been through this once, you'll learn alot about your tolerances and you'll have a set of very relevant records which you can sub right into the next training cycle. Your best 5x5 would become week 3 and then a margin above it - or ideally week 3 would exceed your best 5x5 by a margin and then week 4 above that (this makes for a tougher loading cycle and this is one of the things you'll learn whether or not to do for your current state of conditioning). The other lifts 1x5, 3x3, 1x3 are similarly adjusted based on previous records. Also, people's tolerances vary widely at every level. Even 2 top competitive lifters - they may lift exactly the same weight and be equally sized but one requires a massive amount of volume in training while another does not. No ego just what each needs to stimulate progress. As you go, you'll learn all about what you need, what you can handle, and what is too much. Eventually, you'll be able to tailor this program or an entire 6 month training cycle to your individual specs and requirements.

Incorporating the Olympic Lifts:
The above is basically setup for someone who doesn't know the OLs. Starr's original workout included Power Cleans and High Pulls. Instead of Bent Rows substitute Power Cleans. Rather than Deads substitute High Pulls.

Substituting Exercises:
Don't **** with this. Every BBer seems to have Attention Deficit Disorder and an overwhelming desire to customize everything. The bottom line is that these are all the most effective exercises and just about anything one does will result in less gains. As a rule those people who want to change it don't know enough to make proper alterations - those who do know enough, don't have much to change. The two guys who are responsible for this program are some of the best on the planet at bulking lifters and making people stronger. It's kind of like Sesame Street's Elmo offering neurosurgery advice at NYU. Anyway, it's absolutely essential not to screw with the squats, they are the foundation of this program. If you want to sub inclines or push presses for military that's okay. Do not sub machines - don't even think about it, hit yourself with a plate if you must. If you want to do arms choose a single bicept and tricept exercise and perform it at the end once per week for 3 sets of whatever - your arms will take a beating from all the pulling and pressing anyway. If you can't chin due to bodyweight, pulldowns are okay. Core work is always fine. Cardio is fine - interval training is the best for this I'll just throw out. If this is just too much mental strain, take solace in the fact that it's 9 weeks, you'll gain a ton of muscle and strength and then you can spend the next 4 weeks adding the minute detail to refine the gained mass (like most care anyway - I have yet to meet a guy on this board who will trade 20lbs of muscle for a bit of added detail somewhere). In a nutshell, put your trust in some of the better coaches on the planet and enjoy the results. If it doesn't look like a typical program to you, that's because most programs suck and almost require drugs or a total novice lifter to see gains. For a lifter with some experience, it is not enough to go in and work hard - you need a program that properly regulates volume and intensity (either that or you'll settle for very sub-optimal gains or simply use increased drug dosage to compensate for ****ty training). Read the dual factor theory posts.

Bands/Chains/Speed/DE:
If you don't know what this is, don't worry about it. Read up on Westside sometime - it's not integral to the program but incorporating work like this into your training cycles can be worthwhile no matter if you are a PL, general athlete looking for performance or BBer. For those that do and want to incorporate them, the 1x5 days are the days you would choose for these.

New or Novice Lifters:
A dual factor program is overkill. Read the single factor version and the link on Glenn Pendlay and Mark Ripptoe's squatting program. This will take care of you for a year or so. Mark consistently gets 30-40lbs on a new natural lifter in under 6 months.

Advanced Lifters:
As one learns about one's tolerances and progresses over time one will generally find that one is able to gradually accomodate more volume. What generally happens is that a lifter will remove the pyramid 1x5 workouts and swap them into a second 5x5 over time. In addition, an advanced lifter will start their ramps much closer to their record weights for a backbreaking loading period. As one's weights increase the volume can also be spread over 4 days rather than 3 to accomodate the fatigue from the heavier weights. These lifters might also compress the training cycle into 2-3 weeks of loading and 2 weeks of deloading. I'm just going to state, this stuff is for someone who has spent years doing this type of work. I only include this for completeness. The way I have it listed above will overload just about anyone besides an elite lifter and push them to their limit if they set their weight right. You apply more volume when you need it, not as an ego thing. This will destroy or drastically limit your gains. Don't do this unless you've run many dual factor training cycles and are absolutely sure you need it. I'm being overly cautious but most people on this board come from a BBing background where typical programs are the 3 day split variety hitting each muscle 1x per week. This base program itself is a whole different world of volume and the tweaks here can make it much more taxing and in every single case that I've seen where someone is even relatively new to this style of program - they should not be employed.
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Old 17-May-05, 08:12 PM   #20
threenorns
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talk about synaptic overload!


do the MaxOT system - i've been working it for three weeks and i'm *thrilled* with my results. the whole routine's there, you don't need to do anything. read the information, ignore the promotional stuff (unless, of course, it's something you're interested in), and bust your hump.

put it this way: since april 1st, i've not lost a single pound in bodyweight - still 202.

however, i've lost an inch off my chest, nearly 3" off my waist, 2" off my hips, and my arms are UP an inch. not only are my arms larger, but they've got some nice curves starting to appear.

tell me those aren't results!
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Goals: bench - 200; squat - 225; deadlift - 225
27/01/06: bench - 170; squat - 195 (wrapped); deadlift - 210; total - 575; need - 617; to go - 42
"Illegitimi non carborundum"
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Old 17-May-05, 08:50 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by threenorns
talk about synaptic overload!


do the MaxOT system - i've been working it for three weeks and i'm *thrilled* with my results. the whole routine's there, you don't need to do anything. read the information, ignore the promotional stuff (unless, of course, it's something you're interested in), and bust your hump.

put it this way: since april 1st, i've not lost a single pound in bodyweight - still 202.

however, i've lost an inch off my chest, nearly 3" off my waist, 2" off my hips, and my arms are UP an inch. not only are my arms larger, but they've got some nice curves starting to appear.

tell me those aren't results!
I've never stated not once nor will i state that Max-ot doesnt work. It will work, however to what degree will it work? I must also ask you what 'level' of fitness you have? Are you a beginner? Intermediate? or Advanced?

My point is simple, its to get people to think outside the safe haven of their box and challenge not only their bodies but their intellectual mindset. You'll find out the more you do this the better of you will be in this sport.

Whatever you try to say, its simple and fact that Max-ot is:

1. Standardized
2. Not individaulized
3. Flawed
4. They HIGHLY opinionated about themselfs.

Like I said, think outside the box. Learn and apply. As you'll see with my post above I've gained a considerable amount of information and learned alot of things to show just how 'flawed' my training can be aswell. The way you do this is by reapplying what you know based on what you've already gained practicaly.

Kc
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Old 17-May-05, 09:36 PM   #22
threenorns
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you know... i'm all for research - but i just try something for six weeks and if it works, i keep doing it and if it doesn't work, i look for something else.

i just want a nice body - not a university degree in kinesiology and sports science!
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Goals: bench - 200; squat - 225; deadlift - 225
27/01/06: bench - 170; squat - 195 (wrapped); deadlift - 210; total - 575; need - 617; to go - 42
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Old 17-May-05, 09:39 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by threenorns
you know... i'm all for research - but i just try something for six weeks and if it works, i keep doing it and if it doesn't work, i look for something else.

i just want a nice body - not a university degree in kinesiology and sports science!
To each their own I assume.

Kc
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Old 17-May-05, 09:40 PM   #24
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Threenorms can u give me the max 0t work out?
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Old 17-May-05, 10:14 PM   #25
abarlament
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Anecdotaly, I made some of my best bench strength gains benching 3x a week, light-moderate-heavy.
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Old 18-May-05, 03:41 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abarlament
Anecdotaly, I made some of my best bench strength gains benching 3x a week, light-moderate-heavy.
That is difficult to argue against.

Excellent info, Kyle. Thanks for taking the time to post it. This link is going in the FAQ's about training. :
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Old 18-May-05, 07:27 AM   #27
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Quote:
That is difficult to argue against.
That's because | 12ULZ0r!!1!!1!!!11
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Old 18-May-05, 07:44 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by abarlament
That's because | 12ULZ0r!!1!!1!!!11
Programmers!

BTW - I've gotta know what it means!!!
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Old 18-May-05, 11:58 AM   #29
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Start here, gsot: Max-OT Training Series
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Old 18-May-05, 12:48 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronMan
Programmers!

BTW - I've gotta know what it means!!!
Simply put: "I rule," but with a lot of english put on it.
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