Hello, Newbie With Some Questions

[rmats]

Hello, this is my very first post and I am asking for some feedback on my workout plan. I am happy with my progress thus far, this is my first attempt in asking for feedback regarding my plan. Below I will list my workout and my diet plan. I am 37 years old, 5'5 198 lbs. I know the height to weight chart says I should be 150 but I've heard for a while that height to weight chart stuff is outdated. I have lifted weights for 12 years, but I've had a few breaks here and there due to unemployment and injuries. I'm just speculating that my higher weight for my height may partially be attributable to my strength training. I was unemployed a few years back and to be honest, I hadn't really watched my dietary intake until February, since then I have gone down from 208 down to 198. Prior to that, well in 2002 when I first began I was at 225. My goal is to get down to 180 lbs. One thing is I notice I have lost a lot of strength as I've lost the weight. I'll admit, I never had watched my calorie intake until recently, I know I was dumb about it, but I figure better late than never.

Mondays and Thursdays Chest & Triceps (No Cardio)
Tuesdays Shoulders & 50 Minutes of Cardio on the Elliptical Cross Trainer (the one without the moveable arms)
Wednesdays 35 minutes Elliptical, Leg Workout
Fridays Back & 50 minutes of the Elliptical
Saturdays Biceps & 50 minutes of the Elliptical
Sundays - Cardio only, 50 minutes on the Elliptical

My dietary plan is low in fat, I average 1900-2200 of calories per day. I am trying to eat from all the major food groups. I estimate my protein intake is 150 grams per day. Now with that in mind, as I mentioned earlier, I have lost strength while experiencing my weight loss. I know the usual advice is a gram of protein per lb of body weight. Shall I bump up the protein to equal my weight in terms of grams of protein?

I know what I list as my activity plan is a 7 day a week thing, but I am single, no kids, and well, my social life isn't too happening. So I have nothing better to do than workout, I always look forward to the workouts though, it's hard for me not to go to the gym. With that in mind, is there concern I am overtraining? I am giving each body part a minimum of 48 hours of rest between training sessions. Chest and Tri's are the only muscle group I target twice in the week.

Thanks in advance, I appreciate all your comments. Take care.

Oh, my supplements include a Multi, Protein, and Glutamine.

Rich

[.V.]

Take another look at it and see if you can't find one day just for rest each week. If you don't take a day off, you'll possibly end up overtrained, injured, and then give up.

[Jennifer]

According to the ACSM (American College of Sports Medicine), with weight loss you should decrease caloric intake, meaning you should eat less calories than you are expending in the day. When you trying to gain muscle mass (and with that comes muscle strength), you should increase your caloric intake (eating more calories than expending). Too much cardio will metabolize or use the muscle mass you have gained if you are doing too much. An example would be that you could be doing to same things that a certain person is doing who is gaining muscle mass and strength and not doing as much cardio, but because you do more cardio than that person, your eneryg stores are pulling from your muscles. With that said it is still possible to gain muscle mass and strength with weight. I would need to look in detail at your daily routine and get a better idea of what you eat each day.

Jennifer

[rmats]

Thanks Jennifer,

This is my typical diet plan during six days a week. Well, 7 days a week except for my dinner on Sundays. That's my "cheat meal"


Breakfast

Carnation Instant Breakfast & an apple or and orange -
MultiVitamin

Midmorning Snack - Can of Tuna 80 Cals, 1 Fat, 18 Protein

Lunch - either turkey chili, salad, or soup, such as Chicken Gumbo, Chicken Noodle, the non creamy, milk based soups In addition to some carrot sticks as my "side order"

Mid Afternoon Snack - Cliff Bar, celery Sticks

Work out (I hit the gym in the afternoon after the work day is over)

Post workout - 1 Cup of Skim Milk mixed with 1 cup of protein

Dinner- varies between chicken breasts, low fat turkey burgers, salads

Bedtime - 1 cup of skim milk and Glutamine.

I also drink at least 1 1/2 gallons of water every day. Water is my preferred beverage, no soda (not for ten years), low cal fruit juice, and skim milk are my beverages of choice. Water is the most prevalent beverage in my diet.

I forgot to mention, when I'm in the gym, my weight workouts are no longer than 45 minutes.

[etothepii]

Read up on High Intensity Interval Training, or HIIT. It would replace your 50 minute cardio workouts with 12 to 20 minute workouts (depending on your warm up and cool down times). You will burn fewer calories during the workout, but your metabolism will be higher after the workout, resulting in more fat burning. This technique minimizes any muscle loss, while increasing fat loss. You can read about it by wearching this site, or hitting Google. One warning: It really tuckers you out!

Once you're up to it, you can then look into Tabata workouts. I did my first real Tabata-styale workout just today. You get huge aerobic and anaroebic benefits from one four minute workout. One warning: not only will it tucker you out, you may throw up when you're done!

Oh, I forgot. you won't want to do either HIIT or Tabata too frequently. They're both quite demanding. Just a couple per week. Your other cardio workouts can go down to 15 to 20 minute, I'd say, of light to moderate intensisty. I'd like to reiterate what Welch said too. Get a rest day in your routine. Over training is very bad for muscle strength and development.

[Jennifer]

I wouldn't change anything about you diet, except that you need more complex carbs, but only in about 2 of your meals. I also wouldn't change your cardio workouts. The ACSM reccomends your workouts to be 30-60 minutes. Could you send me a typical weeks worth of your weight lifting routine? Also I'm not here to dicredit people, but when I see bad information I want to correct. The comment before this one is completely wrong. The alloted time in which he says you should cardio is not enough to workout your heart. The heart needs to be stressed to become a better working machine. The better is works the better it does at deliverying oxygen to the rest of systems in the body, which should be your ultimute goal. I'll help tweek your weight lifting routine so that you can see the results your looking for. Keep up the great work!!

Jennifer

[fitricise]

does your carnation instant breakfast have a little bit of fat in it? cause, im not sure if your multivitamin is time released or not, but the fat soluble vitamins need (a little) fat for best absorption. honestly im not sure what amount, or if the before bed meal would cover it for the next morning, but to be safe I would add them after a meal with fat.

btw, theres a lot of controversy about glutamine's effectiveness still, IMO there are better supplements that are proven to work if you don't feel results.

[fitricise]

Originally Posted by Jennifer

I wouldn't change anything about you diet, except that you need more complex carbs, but only in about 2 of your meals. I also wouldn't change your cardio workouts. The ACSM reccomends your workouts to be 30-60 minutes. Could you send me a typical weeks worth of your weight lifting routine? Also I'm not here to dicredit people, but when I see bad information I want to correct. The comment before this one is completely wrong. The alloted time in which he says you should cardio is not enough to workout your heart. The heart needs to be stressed to become a better working machine. The better is works the better it does at deliverying oxygen to the rest of systems in the body, which should be your ultimute goal. I'll help tweek your weight lifting routine so that you can see the results your looking for. Keep up the great work!!

Jennifer

these has always been my thoughts on cardio- but every bodybuilding board ive been to seems to recommend HIIT or a variation. I know this is because for the best fat burning, anerobic activity is best because the heart rate is raised for a longer time after exercise is done.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...body%20fatness.

in theory couldn't you only do sprints for workouts then and sufficiently work the heart? Being a runner I am inclined to lean towards recommending endurance cardio but for most people interested in building muscle they simply have no interest.

it seems like a question that can't really be answered at this time, or maybe I am just lacking the knowledge, is that much cardio really necessary for heart health? Aren't the ACSM recommendations for people to maintain a healthy bodyweight?

[etothepii]

This is a cut and paste. I'm still looking for the original article. Please bare with...

What Is It?

•The repeated alternating of periods of high intensity effort with periods of low intensity effort.
•The basic tenets of interval training can be satisfied on a treadmill, stationary bike, elliptical machine, or outside, with the latter ‘probably’ being the most effective.
•Normally defined by a ‘work:rest’ ratio (e.g. 1:3), in which the ‘work’ component represents the high intensity/sprint component and the ‘rest’ represents the low intensity/active recovery component.
•For example, alternating 20 second fast runs with 60 second brisk walks (or jogs) until the desired time has elapsed.
•Typically shorter in duration than traditional low intensity cardio owing to the higher intensity effort.

The Benefits of Interval Training Relative to Endurance Cardio

1.Greater Energy Expenditure and Resultant Fat Loss

•With increasing exercise intensities, the proportion of energy substrate derived from fat decreases, while the proportion of carbohydrate usage increases. (3)
•However, the predominant fuel substrate used during exercise does not play a significant role in fat loss.
•Total daily energy expenditure is more important for fat loss than the major fuel used during exercise. (3)
•The most notable study comparing interval training to endurance cardio concluded that interval training is the most optimal method for fat loss. (14)

oIn this study subjects engaged in either an endurance program (4-5 times per week for 30-45 minutes) for 20 weeks or a high-low intensity program for 15 weeks.
oNeither group was placed on a diet.
oThe mean estimated energy cost of the endurance protocol was 120.4 MJ, whereas the mean estimated energy cost of the high-low intensity protocol was only 57.9 MJ. (more than double)
oHowever, the decrease in six subcutaneous skin folds was greater in the high-low intensity group than it was in the endurance group. This is despite the lower energy cost during exercise.
oAfter statistical analysis it was shown that the high-low intensity group experienced nine times the fat loss of the endurance group.
oThis same study found the high-low intensity protocol to significantly increase the activity of an enzyme which is a marker of the activity of ‘fat burning’ over endurance protocol.


•While one burns less overall calories and less fat during interval training (due to the involved energy systems) compared to endurance cardio, when the post-exercise recovery period is factored in, interval training leads to significantly greater energy expenditure and fat loss.
•This is due to the effects interval training has on excess post-exercise oxygen consumption (EPOC)

oEPOC – post-exercise oxygen consumption above resting values used to restore the body to the pre-exercise condition.
oAfter exercise, oxygen uptake remains above pre-exercise levels for a period of time that varies according to the length and intensity of exercise.

•The number of calories burned following interval training is significantly enhanced due to the increased EPOC.
•There is much research to show that interval training protocols result in significantly greater post-exercise energy expenditure and fat utilization when compared to low to moderate intensity protocols. (1, 4, 7, 8, 10, 15)
•Another study showed that even with no significant difference in total work, groups that exercised at a high intensity lost significant amounts of fat, while no significant changes were found in the lower intensity group. (2)
•Another study showed that those who participated in high intensity exercise had lower skin fold measurements and waist-to-hip ratios than those who participated in lower intensity exercise. (13)
•Improved VO2max, as a result of interval training, has been associated with increased thermic effect of food (TEF) (6)

oTEF – An increase in energy expenditure due to an increase in cellular activity associated with digestion.

2.Improved Cardiovascular Conditioning & Fitness

•Interval training has been shown to increase both aerobic and anaerobic capacity whereas endurance cardio only increases aerobic capacity. (9, 11, 12, 14)
•It is well established that interval training increases aerobic capacity/VO2 max more than endurance cardio. (5, 12)

o28% increase in aerobic capacity with high-low intensity cardio vs. 14% increase in aerobic capacity with endurance cardio. (12)

•Maximal oxygen uptake, or V02max, is generally regarded as the best single measure of aerobic fitness.
•Interval training is more conducive to improving the muscle's ability to use fat. The more fit one becomes, the more likely they are to use fat as fuel for any given activity.

•Post training, you will burn more fat. Numerous studies show that HIIT can elevate your metabolic rate significantly after the workout – with most of the calories coming from fat.
•Fat/calorie burning is elevated afterwards to restore homeostasis (i.e. body temperature, catecholamines, hemoglobin, myoglobin, etc.).And it doesn't matter if you eat carbs right away either. This will not inhibit the oxidation of fat. In fact research actually shows that getting nutrients in immediately after HIIT will actually increase EPOC, reduces muscle protein catabolism, and increases recovery, all while having the wonderful benefit of not inhbiting lipolysis.
•HIIT dramatically increases the amount of GH released into the bloodstream. This has some fat burning implications. (muscle building benefits are questionable)
•Long periods of low-intensity/steady state cardio tend to convince some fast-twitch fibers to convert to slow-twitch fibers (or at least take on some slow twitch qualities). Conventional slow, long-duration cardio workouts tend to "overtrain" the fast-twitch muscle fibers and to convert the intermediate muscle fibers to slow-twitch suitors. HIIT prevents this from occurring, preserving your muscle growth potential.
•High intensity cardiovascular exercise increases oxygen expenditure and forces the body to adapt by becoming more efficient at oxygen transport (increase in VO2 max). That means healthy benefits for the heart, lungs and other components of your cardiovascular and pulmonary systems.

[etothepii]

Here's the study:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Citation

<edited for bad manners>

This is some of what my comments are based upon.

[Jennifer]

I understand the HIIT and do promote it, but it shouldn't be done on a regular basis. You need to constantly be changing up your workouts so your muscles don't get used to one thing. I am talking body building here on this one. As far as cardiorespiratory goes you do need to do some kind of cardio for an alloted period of time which the ACSM recommends 30-60 minutes. If you are at all famaliar with the ACSM you know that there are formulas that are followed when prescribing exercise for an individual that vary from person to person.

In regards to your heart question, there are two types of exercise aerobic and anaerobic. Doing spints is an anaerobic exercise and is great if that is what you are training for, but the person who had originally posted said that he was also trying to lose weight, in which case aerobic exercise, e.g. longer duration of cardiorespiratory sessions, are needed. But I would agree with you on the recommendations for body builders and cardio, but if you can stress cardio then you should do so, or at the very least 30 minutes a day with at least one day of rest.

Also, that much cardio really is necessary for the heart. The heart must be stressed in order for it to become healthier and this is what the ACSM bases their recommendations on.

[.V.]

Let's keep this simple, no need to argue over pet programs or styles.

Walk for 20-40 minutes a day and you will lose weight. If this becomes too easy, walk for up to 60 minutes or just walk faster.

Run for 20 minutes a day and you will lose weight. If this becomes too easy, increase running time or speed.

Do HIIT, sprint/jog or sprint/walk. Jump rope/walk, use the recumbant bike going really hard then easier in intervals for 20 minutes a day - you will lose weight.

Do HIT cardio (Max OT style) - do your chosen cardio all out with evrything you've got to give for 15 minutes and you will lose weight.

IT ALL WORKS, IT ALL BURNS FAT, I'VE DONE IT ALL. The only two questions left are, How much time do you want spend on cardio. And are your concerned with working from your stored glycogen so as to spare muscle.

If you want to use up your glycogen stores and directly burn fat during the workout - do it at a lower intensity for a longer time.

if you want to work within your glycogen storage and just use the increased metabolic rate to burn fat the rest of the day - then do higher intensity for a shorter time.

OK, it's settled so just go do something...it will all work so do the one you like the best or at least hate the least.

Oh and good luck reaching your fat loss goal.:

[rmats]

Thank you very much, all of you for your insight. To be honest, I know I've been guilty for a long time of perhaps working too hard. I just don't have a lot going on in my life so on Sundays, a day I should take off, I'm always getting up to go to the gym to get some cardio in. I have been seeing results and have been complimented by others about my progress. My strength gains were satisfactory, of course as I've begun dropping the weight, I have seen a decrease in strength. I've never been the strongest guy in the gym but here is an example of what I'm trying to describe as my "decrease" in strength. I'll use the flat bench as a basic example.

Now I'm wondering if it is because I am not taking a day off altogether of rest. I work out with weights six days a week and Sundays are my cardio only days. Chest and Tri's are the only muscle groups I work out twice a week, is that perhaps a contributing factor as well to my reduction in strength? I work Chest and Tri's Mondays and Thursdays.

Weight at 208 lbs
10 (reps)/135 (weight), 10/185, 10/225, 8/245, 4/275

Weight at 198
10/135, 10/185, 10/225, 5/245, (here's the difference, I've been dropping down back to 225 instead of going up) 10/225

I think I'm looking at my decrease in my strength at my ability to only achieve 5 repetitions at 245 instead of the 8 that I had done at a higher weight.

[.V.]

Then if strength loss is a concern consider more time off - maybe even 2 days a week. Also consider dietary changes, if you are losing strength something may be wrong in your nutrition plan. Remember there is no nutrition plan that is perfect for everyone. You've got to customize it specifically for your needs. Sadly if your nutrition isn't right for you - you can lose 50% fat 50% muscle after a point.

Also think about time off, not just a couple of days a week, but a whole week off. How long since you've had a break. Many of us, heck most of us need a week off sometime between every 8 and 12 weeks.

If you are losing strength it could simply be because your body needs a break, it could be because your workout/nutrition plan isn't right for you - we all have to change things around once in a while. It could also be excessive cardio. From the strength loss, I'd say:
1. take a week off
2. re-evaluate your diet
3. re-evaluate your workout
4. consider the 15 minutes of all out cardio - and feed it just like a weight session with pre/post workout nutrition, resulting in fat loss from higher metabolism rather than direct fat burning.

Good luck getting it all worked out. It can be done. If you are really lucky, you can even build muscle while burning fat. At worst, if you get it right, you can at least maintain muscle...there is no need to lose muscle to lose fat.

[rmats]

Thank you very much Welch. Come to think of it, I don't recall the last time I really took a day off. I know it is suggested to take as much as a week off to give the body a total break. Perhaps the week I take off could be cardio but limited to every other day in that "rest" week. I will also re-evaluate my daily food intake as well. Thank you very much Welch, and thank you very much to all the others who have been so kind to reply to my question. Thank you.

Rich