I cant get a good burn with my biceps

[whiteblaze]

Today is biceps & back day at the gym. I want to get your opinions on what is a killer excercise for the biceps. Normally what I do is I start off with alternating dumbell curls, then I do preacher curls, then I do the cable rope curls.

Sometimes I may add the burnouts with the barbell (taking 5lbs off after 7-10 reps) doing 30-40 reps per set. I sometimes also do the double cable curls (with my arms spread outwards parallel to the ground, and curling from there, leaving my elbows out).

I just don't see any result, nor do I really feel it after my workout. I usually always have a great workout, I leave the gym feeling very energized. I learned from the beginning form is the most important part of working out, so I really practice that.

Any suggestions?

[threenorns]

yeah - back off! the biceps is a very small muscle - if you're wanting to build size, keep the reps down to 10 or less. i get best results from choosing a weight that keeps it in the 4 to 8 range. you don't *want* to feel a burn - that just means you've run the muscle out of fuel, not necessarily that you've overloaded it properly. i can use a 5lb DB and get a great burn - but it's not gonna do jack-all in encouraging my bicep to grow.

[whiteblaze]

I usually keep my reps between 6 & 10. The only time I go over that is when I do burnouts. I guess I'll stop that. But as far as excercises, what is the best ones? Should I just stick with the ones I listed earlier?

[Merrida]

What's the rest of your workout look like? (This is very relevent). How frequently do you work out per week? What's your routine like (ie: split, push/pull, total body, ratio of strength training to cardio, sets/ reps, how often do you hit each body part, do you do compound movements too or just isolation,...and again yes this is relevent,..but what do you do for your leg workouts?),...etc., etc.

What exactly are you trying to accomplish with what you refer to as a "burn out" set? Where did you get that idea from?

[maverick]

Do a double dropset (8, 10,12) of concentration curls before your normal bicep workout. If you don't feel a pump during your workout and soreness after, your form must be off or you are faking failure. Cheat reps can also help really blow out a muscle too, and back/bicep workouts are prime for these. Only resort to them AFTER failure with good form.

[Shamrock]

Edited.

Try the standing curls. Use the cable crossover towers and raise them to the next notch above shoulder height. Curl your arms inwards with a light weight. I use it at the end of my bicep/back day.

[whiteblaze]

Originally Posted by Merrida

What's the rest of your workout look like? (This is very relevent). How frequently do you work out per week? What's your routine like (ie: split, push/pull, total body, ratio of strength training to cardio, sets/ reps, how often do you hit each body part, do you do compound movements too or just isolation,...and again yes this is relevent,..but what do you do for your leg workouts?),...etc., etc.

What exactly are you trying to accomplish with what you refer to as a "burn out" set? Where did you get that idea from?

I workout 5 days a week. day 1 is cardio & swimming, day 2 is chest, triceps, & shoulders day 3 is quads, butt, & calves, day 4 is traps, hamstrings & abs, day 5 is back, lats, & biceps. I feel really good after my excercise. I usually try and lift to where the 6th rep is most difficult. I hope this answers your question. Obvious or not, I would assume any question would be relevant.

I am also open to any suggestions, if anyone sees a problem in my routine, or such. Thanks a lot!!


EDIT: I forgot to mention, I usually stretch for 10-15 min before my workout and I'll try and go to the steam room for 30 min after my workout (but sometimes I go too late - 10 or 11pm.). I'm glad for 24 hour fitness!! (although I wish they had racquetball....)

[whiteblaze]

Originally Posted by Shamrock

40 reps per set??? I hope you mean 3-4 sets with 15-10 reps per set.

actually I did mean 40 reps. but not per set. just 1 set. I would put 3 5's on each side of the barbell, do 10 standing curls, take 5 off each side, do 10 more, and so on until I finish the last 10 with the bar. I only do that once, and as the last bicep workout, and I only do it sometimes, not everytime I do biceps.

[threenorns]

ouch.... don't do it. you're not doing anything for hypertrophy, just over-aerobicizing those poor things - the biceps make up only 30% of your upper arm mass, so that's a LOT of work in relation to their size.

[whiteblaze]

Okay, tonight I worked out my back, lats, then biceps. by the time I got to my biceps, they were already fairly tight. I did 10 reps of 55lbs barbell curls, 10 more 65lbs, and 10 more 65lbs again - all with at least a good minute break (1min 15-30 sec).

Then I went to the dumbbells feeling pretty tight in the biceps, but after a 5 min break, I did 10 reps of 30lb dumbbells on the on the flat back seated bench. I could only do 2 sets.

Steam room was closed by that time (1:30am) .

Any thoughts?

P.S. since you probably don't know my strengths, 65lb barbells was pretty heavy after the 10th rep. I usually can do 10 sets of 40lb dumbbells, but I didn't have the strength anymore.

[threenorns]

here's a thought: since you can rep 10 at 65, don't waste time with 55s. also, take it up to 70 and do three sets of 6 instead. same thing for the dumbbells - take it up to 40 or 45 so you can only do 6 reps. extend your rest period to two full minutes. after a couple or three weeks, assuming you're only working them once a week to allow for full recovery and supercompensation, you should be seeing nice things.

[maverick]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, dropsets do nothing for hypertrophy?! I'm afraid I have to disagree with that one. Shocks like dropsets, supersets, rest pauses, etc... increase the time under tension (TUT) of the muscle being targetted. Here's a summarized description of what I mean:

When a muscle fiber is contracting, vital energy substrates are being utilized (adenosine triphosphate (ATP) and creatine phosphate in the first 3-10 seconds, and muscle glycogen from about 30 seconds to 2 minutes). Once these substrates in that individual muscle fiber are exhausted, the body recruits a different muscle fiber that has been relaxed. It is a common misconception that when you do a curl (for example), every muscle fiber is being worked. In reality, even in our max lifts, we aren't even using 50% of our muscle fibers at any one time. This is because our muscles are so strong (even in sedentary people), if every fiber contracted at once, we would rip the muscle from the bone.

So at any given time, there are some muscle fibers contracting, and others relaxing. The longer we put the muscle under stress (via dropsets, supersets, static holds and other methods), the more total muscle fibers we will recruit which leads to greater opportunities for growth.

The pump you feel from these types of shocks also IS an indicator of maximal overload. Again, here's a brief summary:

This indicates that the muscle is getting worked because the blood is needed to deliver nutrients (especially oxygen) as well as flush out byproducts of anaerobic glycolysis (like lactic acid). In other words, if you don't get a pump, that means the muscle is not being adequately stressed. The body naturally seeks the lowest energy level possible, but building muscle takes a tremendous amount of energy and is very taxing on our body. Therefore, our muscles resist change, so to speak.

In order to force the muscle to adapt and grow, it must be stressed

Something to chew on for you "low volume" zealots

You guys know I'm not starting a war, as I did HIT for 6 months of this year and had great progress. I just feel it gets a bit close-minded with regards to volume and shocks around here sometimes.

[whiteblaze]

Originally Posted by threenorns

here's a thought: since you can rep 10 at 65, don't waste time with 55s. also, take it up to 70 and do three sets of 6 instead. same thing for the dumbbells - take it up to 40 or 45 so you can only do 6 reps. extend your rest period to two full minutes. after a couple or three weeks, assuming you're only working them once a week to allow for full recovery and supercompensation, you should be seeing nice things.

This makes sense, I will try this next week.

Originally Posted by maverick

Whoa, whoa, whoa, dropsets do nothing for hypertrophy?! I'm afraid I have to disagree with that one. Shocks like dropsets, supersets, rest pauses, etc... increase the time under tension (TUT) of the muscle being targetted. Here's a summarized description of what I mean:

The pump you feel from these types of shocks also IS an indicator of maximal overload. Again, here's a brief summary:

Something to chew on for you "low volume" zealots

You guys know I'm not starting a war, as I did HIT for 6 months of this year and had great progress. I just feel it gets a bit close-minded with regards to volume and shocks around here sometimes.

This is very interesting. I never thought of it that way. The body seeking the lowest energy level. It makes perfect sense, but I never thought of it.

I really appreciate the help you guys have been giving me. I am definitely serious about my workout, and can progress with your help. Thanks again!

I should also clarify, I workout 6 days a week, I take one day off (which happens to be today) and the cycle starts over again.

[Lift2Live]

I am a recovering volume whore (not meant to be derogitory). I now subsribe to the less is more theory and think you'd benefit. The absolute best mass builder for the bicep HAS to be straight Bb curls. Instead of doing 65lbs. for 10, do 85 for 4-6 for 3 sets. Especially on back day, you aren't going to need to blast them the way you are doing. Listen to the advice of the others here, doing too much for one muscle can actually make it shrink, yes shrink! Overtrained muscles do not grow and will atrophy.

Edited: Having said all of this, it is directly dependant on your diet. There is a place for drop sets and other techniques but you have to know when to use them and when not to.

[whiteblaze]

Originally Posted by Lift2Live

I am a recovering volume whore (not meant to be derogitory). I now subsribe to the less is more theory and think you'd benefit. The absolute best mass builder for the bicep HAS to be straight Bb curls. Instead of doing 65lbs. for 10, do 85 for 4-6 for 3 sets. Especially on back day, you aren't going to need to blast them the way you are doing. Listen to the advice of the others here, doing too much for one muscle can actually make it shrink, yes shrink! Overtrained muscles do not grow and will atrophy.

Edited: Having said all of this, it is directly dependant on your diet. There is a place for drop sets and other techniques but you have to know when to use them and when not to.

Thanks for the tip! I use the bent barbells when I do curls. I will change to the straight barbell, and will definitely increase the weight to put my reps to 4-6.

All this info is great! Juicy stuff!!



EDIT: I will also adjust my rest between sets to 2 full minutes per your recommendations.

Also, when you say the muscle can shrink when you overwork it, does that mean shrink in size, but become more dense, or just shrink in size, and not become more dense?