I know, I know, another starting out post...

[Violinguy]

Okay, so I stumbled onto this forum a couple weeks ago and it's wonderful. I'm very glad to be a part of it. Here's my situation, and I'd love as much help and advice as anyone can give.

My goal is to be thin and muscular and have a great looking body. Is that too much to ask? I hope not. I'm 6'0" and weigh about 172 pounds right now.

Let me preface this by saying that I think I've been doing something right, because I've made marked improvements in the last three months since I have altered my diet and begun working out regularly doing weights and cardio on the elliptical trainer. I've lost a tiny bit of fat and gained quite a bit of muscle, although my weight seems to have stayed the same or possibly gone up a few pounds (I know that's the way it's supposed to be).

I've been doing this myself based on whatever I know or have read, and I just want some guidance from people who know what they're talking about.

DIET

Here's my daily diet (I work at night so everything starts late):

* 12pm -- 3 egg whites and one yolk. Usually a piece of fruit such as a plum or nectarine or banana. Also, a cup of coffee with skim milk and 1/2 teaspoon of condenced milk. I know caffeine is bad, but it's hard to stop because I love coffee so much. Love it.

1:30 to workout, next meal immediately follows:

* 3pm -- 2 egg whites as soon as I get home, then 4 cups mixed green salad with 1/2 cup of plain nonfat yogurt and vinegar as dressing. Add in 1 card deck worth of chicken or tuna or whatever, possibly 1/2 to 3/4 cup of beans or a handful of almonds. Sometimes a piece or two of very wheaty bread if I have one on hand. A piece of fruit for dessert

* 4pm -- About now I get a ridiculous craving for another cup of coffee. If I'm good, I have it unsweetened.

* 6pm -- Sometimes another egg white. Maybe another piece of fruit and some more nuts.

* 8pm -- 2 card decks worth of Chicken, fish, lean ground turkey, or beef (once a week tops) broiled, sometimes 1-2 teaspoons of olive oil gets in there somewhere, with onions or garlic and some other vegetable (tomato, lima beans, broccoli, etc). 1/2 cup (uncooked) brown rice or buckwheat or some other whole grain. Another 1/2 cup of plain nonfat yogurt.

I may snack again later on some leftovers like chicken or brown rice, sometimes fruit, or if I'm bad, bread.

Okay, so writing all this out, I have no idea whether I'm eating too much or too little, and where I am with the carb/protein balance. I'm thinking I may need to reduce the fruit, but who knows. I am gaining muscle mass, but I'm not necessarily losing fat where I want to lose it, namely my butt and lower abdomen.

Before starting this diet, let's just say I ate once or twice a day and that usually consisted of takeout chinese food. No wonder I picked up all that flab!

EXERCISE

NOTE: I play the violin professionally, and find that free weights cause undue strain on my wrists and hands. So, for better or for worse, I use the machines. I know many of you will say this is no good, but it's just the way my body likes it...

I go about 4-5 times a week to the gym, usually before my 3pm meal and here is my routine:
* Stretch for 15 minutes
* Crunches on the ball -- 3 sets of 50. Probably not slow enough. I alternate between this and the weighted crunch machine.
* dips - about 3 sets of 15 to exhaustion by last rep of each set.
* elliptical trainer with arm poles - 40 minutes of cardio (heart rate between 135 150, up to 160 or even 170 in 5 min. bursts)

I use weights every other day, usually each one 3 sets of 10 to failure by the end of the second set with a 30-60 second break between sets. I usually only get to 9 on the 3rd set and reduce the weight for the last rep.

* Bicep curl machine, triceps extension machine. I sometimes return to these at the end of a workout for one additional set of 10.
* Chest press and abduction (is that the right word?)
* Row and lat pull
* deltoid workout of some kind

I've stopped lifting with my legs, because I am naturally overdeveloped down there (tee hee). I have really huge quads and calves, and the cardio is getting them hard enough.

What can I do differently? Am I doing okay? Everyone who knows me is impressed with how much better I look already (my girlfriend loves my new body), so I'm addicted and want to make sure I'm doing everything that I can. If the plan is bulk up and then lose weight, I can do that, but I'd rather try to find some way to be strong and thin at the same time!

Thanks everyone!

[Piper]

Congrats on your new found body!

First of all.. diet seems fine, if you are looking to lose fat, but I don't think it'll be any good for bulking up or gaining size (but you aren't looking for this anyway)...

If you lift weight like you do, you will get stronger without much size anyway because of your diet... Personally I couldn't match your diet cos I need lots of carbs for energy

I would recommend the following if you want your abs to be better. The crunches you are doing only works one part of your abs... remember, there are three parts... Upper, Lower and Obliques...

Keep what you are doing for your lower abs...
Try reverse crunches for your upper abs (lie on your back with your legs straight up.... lift your butt off the floor by tightening your abs... keep your hands by your sides, but do NOT use them to lift yourself... otherwise there's no point doing them

Obliques... I find that the seated woodchop is cool for this... Basically, you knee down at a cable crossover machine and hold the weight on one side with both hands, then bring it from that side of your body, to the other side (near your hip).... but don't use your elbows... use your obliques to twist... best off trying to find a movie of this one... hard to explain in words...

and the word you were looking for is "adductors"... the thin muscles in your thigh somewhere...

and if you are looking to be strong and thin then I got one word for ya.... YOGA!!!!!!! Hard to explain, but it's powerful s**t.... try a class and see how you go... I wish I could keep going with mine, but I injured my knee recently and have to keep away for a while (till it heals)....

All the best..

[Fudomyo]

Looks great.

If you want to know more about your diet, just grab a digital scale at your local gourmet shop, and use a program like Paraben's Diet Tracker That will tell you exactly what you are eating. Almost always a surprise.

Dips are a super exercise, put them on the exercise day. That's 6 days of triceps. That'd qualify as a lot of overtraining. You should be able to quage by how much, if any, weight you are adding to you lifts each week.

Take a break every 8 weeks for a whole week.

Once you reach a plateau, you are probably ready for a 3 days split (chest, back, legs). Or just chest/back in you case.

Fudo

[Violinguy]

Thank you so much for the quick and encouraging reply, Fudo! I have read many of your posts and was hoping you'd answer...

A question: If I wanted to make my upper body muscles large enough to match my legs, how would I change my diet or training in order to bulk up without getting fat?

[Fudomyo]

Well, I'd probably tell you to work out less. If you are still making gains then by all means stick to the current plan.

Muscles don't grow in the gym, they grow when they get a chance to rest. 48hrs recouperation is next to nothing. Many studies have shown it take a full 7-9 days to fully recoup. It actually take the nerves the longest to get back to full speed.

As you have confirmed again for me, working out "too much" in the beginning kicks your body into high gear and gets the growth hormone going like crazy. You also have much less much to heal when you start out.

You could try something like this. That's 96 hrs, which is much better. You should lift heavier almost immediately.

Run
Chest
Run
Back
Rest

Run
Chest
Run
Back
Rest

Or just alternate if you always wanted to take Sunday off.

Hope that helps.
Fudo

[Violinguy]

Thanks again!

I've backed off the workouts substantially (took a few days off) and upped my protein ingestion to stave off catabolism. I'm doing okay, but have a really strong fear that I'm not working out enough.

I'm still doing 40 minutes of heavy cardio every day, but will reduce the lifting to a couple times a week. And, after what I've read about the positive effects of legwork (mostly more growth hormone), I am going to continue lifting with my legs. If they get any bigger, though, I'm going to have trouble wearing my pants... .

I'm going to start drinking a soy protein supplement powder after workouts (including cardio workouts), and hope this won't make me fat now that I'm lifting less. There seems to be almost no way I can get one gram of protein per pound unless I'm eating protein all day long, and basically that much chicken breast would make me puke. The soy has 25g protein per serving and nothing else. Is one a day going to be enough?

One last question!

For a day or so after I lift, my muscles get really big and look very good, though they're not too hard. After a day, they start to shrink a lot but get harder when flexed, which I assume means recovery has taken place. Why does this swelling occur, and is it good or bad?

Thanks so much for everything! I'm reading a lot and very excited....

[Violinguy]

Another update:

Everything is going well, and I'm continuing to lose fat little by little, with minor muscle size gains but huge strength gains (in the chest and lats I've almost doubled the weight I can lift). All I'm doing is eating very regularly, trying to stick with 40p/40c/20f.

I haven't stopped doing 40 minutes of daily cardio up to about 160 or 170 heart rate, so I'm sure that's probably not helping me build mass.

I've been continuing to take the soy supplement (25g protein and little else) in skim milk with 1 tsp honey after my workout for protein plus fast glycogen replacement, and it takes away the worn out feeling I had been having for a couple hours after workout. That's the only refined sugar I eat in a day, and today it made me feel great.

I've been doing my entire workout on an empty stomach, which I'm sure is bad, but oddly I find that my performance isn't really suffering. I'm not sure why this is... Maybe because I've been eating a few grams of protein before going to sleep?

[Lee J B]

When I first started out this was, I used to be able to do all my workouts on am empty stomach however, NOW this is not possible .. even if I wanted to it would make me physically ill. I am assuming this is because when I started my body had lots of excess fuel it could use, but seeing as now I am below 10%bf , it doesnt have as much , therefore I have to eat something before workout, just have ... could be the same thing with you violinguy ?

[Violinguy]

I'm sure you're right, Lee, I'm around 13% right now, and that's probably what gets me through those workouts. I look forward to the day when I have to eat!