3 Q's: bulk/cut, deciding daily cals, heart health.

[PizzaEater]

Hellooo,

Male, 6'1", 26yo, 205lb, 22%, newb

Over a period of a few months from February 2003 I came down from 227lb and 26-27% to what I am above using Atkins. That was only ever a temporary thing though and I have since discovered this inspirational site.

The people and the information here are both truely a god send but I am a little unclear on one thing. I understand that the best way to lose fat is to build muscle and that is very convenient since I want to significantly increase my muscle mass anyway. But will the fat just take care of itself? Do I just have to devise a diet and lifting routine geared towards muscle growth and then just sit back a watch the fat disappear over the months? Or would I have to add the muscle first (bulking?), then modify my diet to remove the fat after (cutting?) ?

Somewhere on this board cursor said words to the effect of "the fat literally melts away" when you add LBM. I wish I could find that post again amongst the 4000+ to make sure I read correctly, but it really gives me the impression I just have to take care of the muscle and the fat will take care of itself. But then I read so much about bulking and cutting. Clarification would be great.

Another thing: from this site I understand that weight is in part used to determine how many calories a person should be consuming a day. I guess activitly level is another factor. I never see anything about BF though. Will the answer be the same for a 200lb 10% guy as it will be for a 200lb 22% guy? I am assuming the answer is No since the idea behind losing fat by adding muscle is that muscle burns more energy than fat.

So I guess what I am getting at is that when I come to work out a diet plan, how am I to decide on a daily calorie intake? As the 22% guy, I assume I need less calories all other things being equal. Taking a total shot in the dark I was thinking about starting at 2700cals per day with 42p 33c 25f and seeing how I respond, along with God's 3 day split routine. But if any more light can be shed on how I should decide at what level to start at I would really appreciate it. (Regarding my activity level, I have a 10-15 minute walk to the subway, and the same back, each day. And twice a week I have a two hour dance class which works up a good sweat. The first hour of the class is not so intensive though, more stretching. I guess that already takes care of cardio.)

Oh wait, I have another question now, ffs. I notice people talk about pre-work out meals. How long prior to work out should this be consumed? It is just that on another site I read that you should always work out on an empty stomach. And I remember my mother once telling me that it is not good to exert one's self after eating. Something to do with the heart having to work much harder. (She is a dance teacher and had to learn that sort of stuff to qualify.) So any thoughts on that?

Thanks boys and girls

PizzaEater.

[Sayer]

Hi PizzaEater -

"But will the fat just take care of itself? Do I just have to devise a diet and lifting routine geared towards muscle growth and then just sit back a watch the fat disappear over the months? Or would I have to add the muscle first (bulking?), then modify my diet to remove the fat after (cutting?) ?"

I think you should plan to continue cutting until you are down to at least 15% bodyfat. Research has shown that when your bodyfat is higher, you will gain a high percentage of fat compared to muscle when you bulk. Right now you should lift in order to keep the muscle you have while you continue to lose weight, since losing weight without lifting will cause you to lose a lot of muscle.

"Another thing: from this site I understand that weight is in part used to determine how many calories a person should be consuming a day. I guess activitly level is another factor. I never see anything about BF though. Will the answer be the same for a 200lb 10% guy as it will be for a 200lb 22% guy? I am assuming the answer is No since the idea behind losing fat by adding muscle is that muscle burns more energy than fat. "

Its best to use your Lean Body Mass (LBM) to determine your caloric intake, not your weight. LBM = (1-Bodyfat%*0.01)*weight

This article will show you how to figure out exactly how much to eat:

http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/.../winning_2.htm

[PizzaEater]

Ah that's interesting reading, thank you. Its all being absorbed. Feel almost ready to go shopping and start pumping.

Anything else anyone would like to add? I need all the help I can get

PizzaEater.

[CJNY]

If you eat as often as you should (every 3 hours max) then there really isn't much time between meals and the workout so this is not critical. I try to eat immediately after though, because that seems to replenish things more quickly.

Although there is much truth in what Cursor says, fat doesn't exactly take care of itself. Help it along a little by sensibly eating a bit less than your maintenance level and you'll get to your fat goal faster.

[cursor]

Your fat will only "melt away" if you have your caloric volume, macronutrient balance, and meal timing in check. Clearly you won't be losing fat if you are ingesting more fuel than you are burning.

In response to one of your other questions, read Bill & Bob.

Your adoption of an initial caloric target is simply a "best guess." Based on how your body responds to your exercise schedule and meal plan, you'll need to adjust the details. Given two people of the same size and build, there will still be variations in the caloric balance (and perhaps even in macronutrient balance) for each to achieve maximal benefit from their individual plans.

As far as pre-workout nutrition is concerned, the volume of food and the timing of consumption should be balanced with how positive your resultant workout is. Experimenting some, you can come up with a volume (and type) of food that allows you to get the most from your time in the gym. Examine your lift values, ability to focus, energy level, mental enthusiasm, etc.

I normally eat a good meal (focused on complex carbs and some protein) about one hour before workout. Don't eat so much that your workout is uncomfortable, but you must fuel the activity such that you can move the resistance adequately for maximal results.

[slunge]

Originally Posted by Sayer

Hi PizzaEater -

"But will the fat just take care of itself? Do I just have to devise a diet and lifting routine geared towards muscle growth and then just sit back a watch the fat disappear over the months? Or would I have to add the muscle first (bulking?), then modify my diet to remove the fat after (cutting?) ?"

I think you should plan to continue cutting until you are down to at least 15% bodyfat. Research has shown that when your bodyfat is higher, you will gain a high percentage of fat compared to muscle when you bulk. Right now you should lift in order to keep the muscle you have while you continue to lose weight, since losing weight without lifting will cause you to lose a lot of muscle.

"Another thing: from this site I understand that weight is in part used to determine how many calories a person should be consuming a day. I guess activitly level is another factor. I never see anything about BF though. Will the answer be the same for a 200lb 10% guy as it will be for a 200lb 22% guy? I am assuming the answer is No since the idea behind losing fat by adding muscle is that muscle burns more energy than fat. "

Its best to use your Lean Body Mass (LBM) to determine your caloric intake, not your weight. LBM = (1-Bodyfat%*0.01)*weight

This article will show you how to figure out exactly how much to eat:

http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/.../winning_2.htm

interesting read, thx.

[PizzaEater]

Thanks guys. Things are becoming clearer all the time. I found the Bill and Bob thread especially helpful. Its amazing the myths that are out there about weight loss, calories, metabolism etc. But this is really making sense.

So one other small question: on my rest days, I will consume less calories right? Where do I lose the calories from? The extra carbs that I would usually have pre- and post-work out? Since I won't be working out that day there is no need for such a large carb intake at that time right? So I'll just consume fewer carbs and mostly in the morning and early afternoon and then let them tail off, making sure any I have later on are the most fiberous carbs i.e. vegetables. Am I making sense?

And what about cardio days? Hmm, I have no clue if I will burn more energy during my cardio (dance class) or at the gym.

If I'm cutting, should I do something like 45p 30c 25f ? Or should I just stick to, for example, 30p 45c 25f but just keep a tab on calories? And if I'm cutting will I still be able to add some LBM, or will I only manage to maintain what I have?

Thanks for all the input everyone. I'd probably still be on Atkins if it wasn't for this site.

PizzaEater.

[cursor]

Peek at this thread.

[PizzaEater]

Originally Posted by cursor

Peek at this thread.

Ah that's it. I saw that thread but at the time you had not posted that modification to TallShadow's caloric distribution. But now that is a great help.

In fact I feel ready to get too it! I'm going to write a shopping list and work out a meal plan on Friday. Hope to be up and running on Sunday! Wow, I can't wait!

Gunna take a "before" pic and everything. Hehe.

Thanks everyone. Will report on progress in a few weeks! I am still here though, and will gratefully devour any additional pieces of info from anyone.

PizzaEater.