Atkins Diet

[abarlament]

Originally posted by carcajou
I am not involved with PETA...but did you know that 18 states changed the 'cruelty to animals laws' so that the laws would no longer govern the treatment of animals being raised as food sources? Now they can treat the animals any way they wish to. All this while the U.K. is passing laws to improve the quality of the meat that they have on the shelves of their grocery stores. Hmmm...PETA stands for PEOPLE for the ETHICAL TREATMENT of ANIMALS...what is wrong with treating animals with ethics in mind?

Whoa whoa whoa killer, I love aminals!


Atkins doesn't advocate any dairy?

Not milk, but cheese is ok, so is heavy whipping cream and whipped cream.

No...our systems are not designed for meat. Our systems CAN digest meat but the portions are supposed to be as big as a deck of cards. That's it. There is ample evidence that says that we should not be eating meat at all...like the design of our entire digestive tract/system...
1) the numerous convolutions that are designed to increase the surface area of the nutrient absorbing surfaces (just like all herbivores-no similarities to the carnivores)
2) the need for enzymes ( meat has NONE )
3) the need for fiber ( meat has NONE )
4) the excessive protein in meat
5) the saturated fat in meat
6) the sheer elevation of incidence of disease with the addition of meat to the diet

Well, I think this just proves we werent meant to eat ONLY meat. What about our teeth? We have canines or whatever they're called. And B vitamins.


...as for the drugs and such...it doesn't surprise me that you know nothing about it. The meat industry is not going to give you the details...they just want you to keep on believing that you need it to be strong.

I was hoping you could give me the details, if you don't mind


There are plenty of things that are bad for your health that you can do for a while...whio wants to risk it though?
Keytosis=BAD

Well I'm definetly gonna need to see some proof that ketosis is bad for you!

[carcajou]

The keytosis part...see my FIRST POST on this thread on page 1.

Cheese and the cream are WORSE than the milk itself!! The toxins/additives/chemicals are all CONCENTRATED in those products...not to mention the fat content.

If we were meant to eat meat then it wouldn't get trapped in and cause plaque build up in our digestive tracts. The canine teeth are NOT sharp enough to be carnivorous teeth. If humans were meant to eat meat then we'd be capable of eating it raw. B12 requirement is VERY LOW a few micrograms per day and the average human liver has enough stored in it to last 5 years.

The details of the drugs/additives in the meat will follow in a later post...I don't want to be shut down in the middle of a paragraph.

[abarlament]

Originally posted by carcajou

Keytosis is a state which occurs when there is an imbalance in fat metabolism ( similar to what occurs in diabetes and starvation ).

Well sorry but this is completely wrong, I thnk you are thinking of ketoacidosis instead of ketosis. Ketoacidosis is actually what happens in diabetics and starving people, not ketosis, they are DIFFERENT things.

In keytosis the body metabolizes MUSCLE TISSUE instead of fat.

Actually, it's the other way around, like I said there is a study where it showed that the less carbs people ate, the more fat proportinal to muscle they lost, 20g a day being 95% fat 5% muscle, I can link you to the study if you want.


The consequences of extended ketosis:
muscle breakdown Not true
nausea true, for some people, and even so they get over it within a few days
dehydration well, if you drink enough water, this isnt true, but you need to drink more than usual, you lose glucose, which has a few water molecules attached, so I'll give you this one
headaches again, possible, but they will get over it, I never had headaches
light-headedness again, true, but they get over it, and it depends on teh person
irritability where did you get this one from?
bad breath lol TRUE all the way, what are they called, acetones? anyways, acetone respiration gives you a fruity type breath, almost metalic, not harmful at all
kidney problems NOT true, you don't eat any where NEAR the amount of protein that would give your kidney troubles.
increased risk of heart disease agian, completely false, it actually lowers cholesterol, and increases good cholesterol

and in pregnancy the effects of ketosis can cause fetal abnormality and death. This actually could be true I havn't researched this aspect, please tell more, about the reasons for the abnormalities and whatnot

Diabetics that are exposed to extended keytosis are also risking death. actually, this is the reverse. When you have your insulin under control, you dont need to inject it. Diabetics have to inject insulin so they can use it to store/use carbs, when you dont use carbs, you dont need as much insulin...


The American Institute for Cancer Research evaluated the Atkins diet and accused the views about 'sugar causing cancer' as being scare tactics meant to direct people toward the Atkins diet. They also said that the diet can lead to the kind of rapid weight fluctuations that adversely affect the heart

Weight fluctuations adversely affect the heart could you clarify this? you mean like waying +/- 4 pounds a day?

and that the breakdown of fatty acids that occurs during ketosis may also increase the risk of heart disease.

So breaking down your fat is bad, then how do diets work?


Another interesting observation that they made was that the diet plan does nothing to encourage the dieter to learn some very basic weight management strategies like portion control and serving sizes, let alone develop the skills necessary for a lifetime of balanced nutrition.

portion control is controlled by the blunting of hunger that ketosis provides, I can vouche for this because I have actually been in ketosis, and have experienced it. It rules, basicly...

Most people into bodybuilding ALREADY KNOW how to eat healthier than these 'low carb' plans are advocating and almost anyone who has the drive to take up resistance training seriously can certainly do the MINIMUM amount of research required to show these diets for what they are: UNHEALTHY.

Bodybuilders need carbs to build muscle, people doing Atkin's are basicly interested in losing fat, if they wanted to build muscle they would be doing a different diet.

[carcajou]

Additives in animal products...

24.6 million pounds of antibiotics are administered to U.S livestock per year for reasons other than treating disease...that's 8 times what is given to the humans in order to treat disease.

90% of U.S. beef cattle are routinely implanted with Zeranol, trenbalone acetate, progesterone, testosterone, and/or estradiol.

17 beta oestradiol ( widely used in U.S. beef production ) exerts tumor initiating and tumor promoting effects.

The practice of feeding cow meat, bones, brains, feathers and fecal matter of their own species to pigs and chickens is still not banned in the U.S.

70% of U.S. pigs have pneumonia at the time of slaughter.

90% of U.S. chickens are infected with leukosis (chicken cancer) at the time of slaughter.

Many rendering plants pick up cats and dogs that have been euthanized from vet clinics and shelters. Much of the U.S. livestock feed is made from rendered products.

In case you are having a hard time puting this together...commercial meat, dairy and egg products often come from animals whose diet has included ground up dogs, cats, the flea collars that they were wearing and the euthanasia drugs that were injected into their bodies.

Dioxin has been said to cause 12% of human cancers in industrialized societies. The EPA says that 95% of human exposure to dioxin comes from meat, fish and dairy products.

I think I can get more for you if you like.

[carcajou]

This is a quote from a dietician...I think I'll take this type of information over yours. You appear to have been sucked in by the brainwash machine...FULLY.

"in diets containing fewer than 130 grams of carbohydrates, ketosis occurs and your body starts breaking down muscle and lean tissue to provide glucose for brain and nerve fuel. Your body's first need is for fuel. Your body's use of dietary fuels cannot be changed drastically by altering your diet.

Your body can and does take stored fat (as triglycerides) and incompletely breaks it down into ketones, which can be used as a fuel source for muscles and organs. To completely breakdown body fat, you need glucose and oxygen. If glucose is not available for fuel by your limiting dietary carbohydrates, your body learns to run on ketones, but your brain doesn't. Your brain gets sluggish because it only runs on glucose. Your body starts breaking down muscle and organ tissue to provide the needed glucose for brain tissue. Protein contains glucose in its structure and it can be scavenged for use by the brain and nerves. Quick weight loss diets claim they spare muscle protein, but they don't. A diet high in protein and low in carbohydrates does not spare muscle protein from being broken down, unless you eat enough carbohydrate. As you continue on a high protein, low carbohydrate diet, the amount of ketones increases and ketosis occurs. Ketones are very irritating to your kidneys and the kidneys try to get rid of the ketones through the urine."

[carcajou]

...and you appear to be arguing against points that you don't fully understand.

That is simply irritating.

[abarlament]

Ok, I will ask you a question, if I did a CKD for about two and a half months, how many pounds of muscle and how many pounds of fat do you think I would use. You'd say more pounds of muscle than fat right?

[abarlament]

PS don't get mad, I remember a quote my friend told me:

Don't worry about winning an argument on the internet, it's like the special olympics, even if you win you are still retarded.

A little harsh but it gets the point across.

[carcajou]

Originally posted by abarlament
PS don't get mad...
Don't worry about winning an argument on the internet, it's like the special olympics, even if you win you are still retarded.
A little harsh but it gets the point across.

I am not in any debate to 'win' for any type of prestige or whatever...the fact is that there is a lot of poor information being spread around on this site which is intended to be a resource for people looking for answers.

For you to say "that is just wrong" about something that is COMLETELY CORRECT is simply misleading.

During the first 2 weeks on a high-protein diet, the carbohydrate intake is lower than normal and some body fat is burned. But,without carbohydrates, the body does not burn the fat completely, and substances called ketones are formed and released into your bloodstream. This condition called ketosis makes dieting easier because it often depresses your appetite and may even cause nausea. Ketosis is the body's way to adapt to a high protein diet or to fasting.Ketosis is NOT a normal state for the body and may cause dehydration, dizziness, constipation, weakness, irritability, bad breath,and headaches. After a few weeks, ketosis may cause gout or kidney stones due to high uric acid levels created by high protein levels of the diet.Authors of these high protein diets actually advise consumers to"take advantage" of ketosis to hasten weight loss. But, ketosis is one of the body's last-ditch emergency responses. Ketosis can be fatal in individuals with diabetes. During pregnancy, ketosis may cause abnormal development of the baby, or death. For these reasons, the state of ketosis can be dangerous. Plus, it will not lead to permanent,healthy weight loss.

[carcajou]

Over an extended period of time, high protein (low carbohydrate) diets can cause other health risks.For example, these diets contain too little fiber,which may cause constipation and other intestinal problems. Other risks are described below.
1. Heart Disease Risk increases when consuming a diet high in animal protein, cholesterol,and saturated fat. All three raise serum cholesterol and Low Density Lipoprotein (LDL)or "bad cholesterol". A high meat intake mayncrease homocysteine, an amino acid that increases in the blood stream when levels of dietary protein are up. High homocysteine levels may lead to clogged arteries and heart disease. Eating high fiber foods and those rich in folic acid, such as green leafy vegetables and fruit lowers heart disease risk.Also recommended are whole grains and dairy products with little or no fat content.Whole grain foods are beneficial as well.
2. Long-Term Weight Loss is not maintained on fad diets because the type and variety of food suggested is usually limited and may lead to boredom and cravings over time.These diets may lead to bingeing on foods high in sugar and fat and backsliding into old habits.
3. Gout may be caused by an increased intake of meats, poultry, nuts, seeds, eggs, and seafood that are high in compounds called purines. High amounts of purines in the diet cause uric acid levels to rise in the body.When uric acid levels increase, susceptible individuals may experience joint pain.
4. Kidney Stones, in susceptible individuals,may be caused by both uric acid and calciumoxalate stones, which are likely to form on a high protein, ketogenic diet.
5. Osteoporosis may develop when diets contain excess protein from animal sources,which increases calcium loss in the urine.Low-fat and nonfat dairy products contain rich sources of calcium, phosphorus, and Vitamin D and are helpful in providing adequate calcium to reduce the risks of this condition.
6. Fainting or a rapid drop in blood pressure is often caused by loss of fluid and electrolytes when following a high protein diet.
7. Bad Breath or "Keto Breath" is caused by high protein, low carbohydrate diets and the incomplete breakdown of fatty acids.

[abarlament]

Well I started at 230 pounds at 28% bodyfat, I ended my CKD at 210 @ 18% bodyfat. Gained strength too, You can ask fudo about CKD diets

Atkin's is not a high protein diet, neither is any other low carb diet I've been on, they all are your normal 1g/pound bodyweight protein, how much do you think Atkin'ers eat?

Also, I have STOPPED low carbing, but I didn't gain back the weight. Actually, when I reintroduced carbs, I lost like 7 pounds, not SURE why. Anyways, I gained that 7 pounds back, but not much else, I'm still hovering around 210-212 when I weigh myself when I get out of bed in the morning.

[carcajou]

If it isn't high protein...and it is low in carbs...then what is it an 'all fat' diet?

I am not going to pretend to know what a CKD is because I don't. I've never looked into it.

Whatever you did worked for you but were you active while losing the weight? Anyone who is active will not have a problem with carbs. Heavily processed foods are bad...including carbs...but the key word is processed not carbs.

[carcajou]

...and for anyone wanting any more information on this subject which I have beaten like a dead horse...

http://www.netwellness.org/thn/w1.cfm

[Pink]

Carcajou...are you a vegan? Last year...I went completeley Vegan for about two months, and my husband almost drove me insane talking about how I was disrupting our household and how he couldn't have a nice "family dinner" anymore because of the "nasty" foods I was making and how I was hurting my 3 year old's health by doing this and blah blah blah. So...I gave it up...but he also told me something that concerned me...that the rise in vegans were contributing to more still born babies because of the lack of something that comes from meat and that if you ARE going to be a vegan, that you need to know exactly how to combine certain foods to make a complete "whatever"..sorry I don't have more details on this, but, have you heard anything about this?

[buff151]

Atkins diet causes a severe loss of energy in most of the advocaters of it. It's really hard to be healthy when on it. Without carbs its is difficult to perform any exersize for any long stints of time. I believe instead a diet rich in raw fruits and vegetables, fresh lean meats, and low refined foods containing high fructose corn syrup. A diet like that allows someone to keep their energy so they can workout, and they are still eating healthy to lose weight/build muscle!! Everyone want to get fit fast, lose weight fast, be a body builder over night...it's not gonna happen. No body wants to work any more towards a better, healthier lifestyle. They want every thing right now. Atkins diet, bowflex, AB VIBRATING BELT!!! All of these things, note that I believe this; your views my differ, are scams.