Atkins=miserable

[endorphin]

i do not know if anybody has covered this yet but going on the atkins diet, may very likely give you a tendancy to be moody, have low energy, feel weak become easily aggrivated and depressed, you are likely to walk around feeling looking and acting zombielike..

alternative? use your carbs to>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Excercize!!

say yes to carbs and dont skip your cardios
dont go to extremes and follow trends like the little sheep they want you to be
it is estimated that within a year of loyaly sticking to the atkins diet, your likely to gain all the weight you initially lost back. and it will no longer be effective, i will do a search for that study and get back with a link later on.

you will be more lively mentally physically emotionally sexually if you just excercize, do not procrastinate, not having time is a cop out, if you dont have time for your own body, i suggest you examine your prioritys and find the time because it is there if you really want to see it. stress can make things seem alot more tight than they really are or have to be.
a great remedy for stress is guess what.. excercize!
once you gain the momentum your energy will expand and you will be capable of toning your body the way you want it.

[endorphin]

http://www.fumento.com/fat/nroatkins.html

[cursor]

Pssst ... endorphin -- have you personally read any of the Atkins books and are you well versed in the multiple phases of the plan? Just curious. You understand that it's not a matter of simply eating extremely low carb all the time ... right?

[abarlament]

Why do people continually say the Atkin's diet "doesn't work," when that statement has been proven false by so many people? I believe he is a lawyer, which accounts for much of his writing style.

http://www.theomnivore.com/The%20Atk...you%20fat.html

[SNPiccolo5]

Atkins, in the end, is actually pretty high carb- as it says to increase carbs until weight loss stops. To stay very low carb for a very long time isn't good, though...

-Tim

[abarlament]

I woulnd't say Atkin's is high carb in ANY stage, piccolo.

[Cort]

I wouldn't say high carb, but it isn't really low either...it just starts out low.

[Gooseneck]

Unfortunately many people hear the term Atkins and think low or no carbs without further looking into the whole matter. I'm having to do this with my girlfriend.

[CliffStamp]

Why would you pay any attention to someone critizing a plan and who is fundamentally ignorant of even the basics of said plan. You would think it would be a mandatory minimum to at the very least read one of Atkins books.

As for a few of the points :

1) Yes a lot of people gain weight after a year on Atkins. This of course is a red herring, ie. a meaningless point intended to sidetrack the arguement. This is true for *ALL* diets, very few in reality are successful long term, depending on who you ask the success rates for all diets is low, ~5%.

2) Atkins is neither high nor low carb long term. It depends on the individual. As it clearly states in both of his books, the final stage of the diet is one where you eat as much carbs as desired which doesn't induce weight gain. Thus if you want to eat 90% carbs, and you can do so while not getting fat - then you can, and you are still on an Atkins diet.

The reason many people stick with very low carb is due to issues with carb imbalance, gluten intolerance, etc., issues which lead them to a higher fat diet in the first place.

3) Yes in the beginning many people can suffer from low carb as it induces a change in body chemistry as the body switches from carb to fat burning, this lasts a few days for most, many never experience it at all, some do stronger than others, it depends mainly on the level of carb addiction. Yes you can *stop* it by feeding your body carbs, which may or may not be a solution depending on your level of carb addiction and can you lose and manague your weight while eating carbs.

4) The Atkins *fad* is about 150 years old, again do some basic research, the central idea was proposed by Banting more than a century ago so its hardly a fad, it was brought back by several bodybuilders in the pre drug era, then again later on in various ketogenic plans. Historically it was always part of our diet, which should be obvious as we store fat for energy *not* carbs and thus are designed to be able to burn it for energy.

-Cliff

[SNPiccolo5]

I guess what I meant to say was that it CAN be high carb... And relative to the beggining of the diet, I'd say the end is high carb in the end, as the beginning is 0-20 g carbs, if I remember correctly.

-Tim

[CliffStamp]

Yeah, the induction phase is really low carb, as close to zero as you can get. This is to induce a change to ketosis quicky. This lasts for two weeks, then you go into OWL, in which you raise the level of carbs until weight loss slows to a level which you find is an acceptable compromise between how much carbs you want to eat and how fast you want to lose weight. Here the carbs are still restricted depending on the individual, but still low around ~100 per day, so < 30% of the diet, so even lower than low carb diets like the Zone.

Towards the end you are supposed to increase carbs until weight loss slows down dramatically, taking a long time (month) to shed the final few pounds. This allows you to smoothly move from weight loss to weight management and by this time you are eating your normal amount of carbs, which if you are not carb intolerant can be very high, > 50% of the diet. Many however tend to keep it lower as they find it easier to control their weight.

The biggest problem is that people don't actually do this, they crash diet eating no carbs for months, lose the weight rapidly and then return *BAM* to their normal eating habits and pile the weight back on. Then you get people like the first poster claiming that this shows that Atkins doesn't work.

Of course all diets fail if you use them in such a manner. Just like for example you can readily hurt yourself if you exercise without proper form, this doesn't mean you should not exercise of course.

-Cliff

[Todd]

I would have to say that the Atkins Diet is very inefficient and very VERY ineffective. It is a over-hyped "yo-yo" diet at best, and that is it.

Originally Posted by CliffStamp

Yeah, the induction phase is really low carb, as close to zero as you can get. This is to induce a change to ketosis quicky.

That is one of the major problems with this diet. Cutting your carbs down to extremely low levels near zero all at once is not a good strategy for losing fat and keeping lean muscle. Yes, people lose weight, but they fail to realize that by cutting your carbs down to near zero all at once, they are losing lean muscle along with fat. Thus, they slow their metabolism down so much that when they do begin to introduce carbs back into their diet, they easily gain the weight back that they lost, PLUS MORE! I've seen it happen to people I personally know, and just by looking at the overall diet plan, the setup for failure is pretty easy to see.

This lasts for two weeks, then you go into OWL, in which you raise the level of carbs until weight loss slows to a level which you find is an acceptable compromise between how much carbs you want to eat and how fast you want to lose weight. Here the carbs are still restricted depending on the individual, but still low around ~100 per day, so < 30% of the diet, so even lower than low carb diets like the Zone.

Again, the carbs are too low and this placed upon the system all at once is what will continue to slow the metabolism and set things up for more weight gain (namely fat mind you!) down the road. The Atkins diet is a short term fix for overall weight loss (muscle and fat), which deceptively does the trick until you go to raise the carb level, then you're screwed because your metabolism has taken a big nose dive -- which is the problem that is induced right from the beginning of this plan.

The biggest problem is that people don't actually do this, they crash diet eating no carbs for months, lose the weight rapidly and then return *BAM* to their normal eating habits and pile the weight back on. Then you get people like the first poster claiming that this shows that Atkins doesn't work.

Eating no carbs (or close to none) for weeks on end causing people to lose muscle along with fat weight is THE problem with this diet. The first poster is right, Atkins DOESN'T work!

Of course all diets fail if you use them in such a manner. Just like for example you can readily hurt yourself if you exercise without proper form, this doesn't mean you should not exercise of course.

The protocals for the Atkin's Diet is what makes it fail within itself, not the action of others following or not following the plan, but yes the failing results may vary in degree depending how the plan was executed/not executed. But overall, Atkins goes from low/no carb to higher carbs all within a short period of time....which is the culprit of setting people of for unseen failure and weight gain.

What the Atkins diet plan fails to implement is the gradual reduction of overall calories and carbs over a period of several weeks at minimum...and then a gradual "maintenance" period which should last forever. All without sacrificing lean muscle, which otherwise slows the metabolism and sets one up for inevitable fat gain when higher calories are reintroduced.

My advice? Follow a diet plan close to that of a competitive bodybuilder. Use the basics of their dieting approach and calorie transitions to outline your diet plan. Experienced dieting bodybuilders are masters at knowing how to gradually lose body fat while maintaining as much lean muscle as possible..through intelligent and gradual dieting techniques. If you want permanent results, you MUST take the gradual approach to it. Atkins diet is a "quick fix" to weight loss that sets you up for a rebound affect that most people are not aware of until it's too late.

[CliffStamp]

First off ketogenic diets have long been used by successful bodybuilders (champion level), Vince Gironda advocated varients pre drug, so they have always been a part of successful drug free bodybuilding.

Second, ketogenic diets don't act to burn muscle, they act to conserve it. By its very defination, ketosis states this.

Ketosis means that you are burning enough fat that the breakdown products (ketones) are elevated enough so that they can be detected in the blood (this causes a number of reactions in the body, mainly a switch to burning glucose -> fat which is conservative to lean body mass).

On a high carb diet you are more likely to burn muscle because all the pathways are set up to burn glucose, and when you don't have enough (you are on a diet remember) you body goes to protein over fat to get the glucose.

Once you enter into ketosis, the body moves from needing glucose to fats and since you are fat (otherwise why are you dieting), it happily burns fat and leaves the muscle alone (it won't do this 100% unless you exercise because on any diet your body thinkgs you are starving and it will try to shed muscle to keep you alive longer, it doesn't realize you can eat any time you want - just consider basic evolution). This would be why it stored the fat in the first place, to burn it at a later date.

Eating high carbs but not enough of them for maintenance confuses the body because you are keeping it in the pathways to want to burn glucose and not fat, but not giving it enough of it to sustain itsself so it constantly tries to obtain it from protein, it also tries to switch on the fat pathways but they are inactivated every time carbs come in.

The reason that the first stage is so rapid on Atkins is to conserve lean body mass, if it was a really slow decent you would have much greater problems like :

1) a large amplification of the above symptoms, as you would be under the maintenance level of carbs (again you are on a diet so calories are restricted) but enough to prevent ketosis from coming on significantly, the duration for adaptaion to ketosis would be much longer and thus you would feel worse for a longer period of time

2) all while this is going on, you would keep burning muscle mass readily for fuel to try to supply the necessary glucose

That being said, diets of this type do actually work for some because they simply can't handle no carbs, their level of addiction is to high. Just like some people can't stop smoking right away and need to taper off. Health wise this obviously isn't as good as stopping right now, but if it works long term, then it is better.

-Cliff

[Todd]

Originally Posted by CliffStamp

ketogenic diets don't act to burn muscle, they act to conserve it

Anytime you cut calories too drastically all at once (as with the Atkins diet cutting carbs down to near nothing) and lose weight quickly, you can be sure that you are losing lean muscle mass along with some fat. This is proven and it's not what you want when simply looking to lose mostly fat permanently. I don't know how you think or see that this does not happen, because it does. And when you do lose lean muscle, your metabolism is slowed. Again, not what one wants.

On a high carb diet you are more likely to burn muscle because all the pathways are set up to burn glucose, and when you don't have enough (you are on a diet remember) you body goes to protein over fat to get the glucose.

I completely disagree with the statement you made above (I highlighted in bold). This is why you GRADUALLY lower your carbs and increase protein, as with a typical competitive bodybuilder's pre-contest diet. This is why you also increase cardio activity. Everything should be done gradually over the period of several weeks, so you don't have to worry or come across situations like you state above. When you do things gradually, you save more lean muscle and still burn off the unwanted fat.

Once you enter into ketosis, the body moves from needing glucose to fats and since you are fat (otherwise why are you dieting), it happily burns fat and leaves the muscle alone (it won't do this 100% unless you exercise because on any diet your body thinkgs you are starving and it will try to shed muscle to keep you alive longer, it doesn't realize you can eat any time you want - just consider basic evolution). This would be why it stored the fat in the first place, to burn it at a later date.

Again, your body won't think you are starving in the first place if you do things gradually (ie. lower your overall calories gradually, lower your carbs gradually, keep protein adequately high, etc). Again, you are presenting hindering factors that crappy diets (like Atkins) produce in the first place, which would not be a factor when you diet down gradually.

Eating high carbs but not enough of them for maintenance confuses the body because you are keeping it in the pathways to want to burn glucose and not fat, but not giving it enough of it to sustain itsself so it constantly tries to obtain it from protein, it also tries to switch on the fat pathways but they are inactivated every time carbs come in.

So, eating next to nothing to ZERO carbs is the answer? LOL! Uh...NO! Cutting your carbs down to nothing all at one shot is NOT the right way to go about dieting man, anything done in drastics within your body is never a good thing. Your body will resist and you will get the pendulum effect as soon as you begin to reintroduce what the body has been lacking.

The reason that the first stage is so rapid on Atkins is to conserve lean body mass, if it was a really slow decent you would have much greater problems like :

1) a large amplification of the above symptoms, as you would be under the maintenance level of carbs (again you are on a diet so calories are restricted) but enough to prevent ketosis from coming on significantly, the duration for adaptaion to ketosis would be much longer and thus you would feel worse for a longer period of time

2) all while this is going on, you would keep burning muscle mass readily for fuel to try to supply the necessary glucose

I disagree wholeheartedly with all the points above. That is completely NOT true. Competitive bodybuilders are able to shed bodyfat over the period of 10-16 weeks (some even longer) without losing much if any lean body mass. And they do this by gradually decreasing overall calories and complex carbs. I've seen this done in real life (buddies of mine) and I have done this myself. And when I did it, I actually lowered my calories still a bit too quickly, and there were some weeks where I lost 3-4 pounds of bodyweight (some of that being hard earned lean muscle). I know that if I had taken an even more gradual approach to my calorie/carb decreasing, I would have maintained more lean muscle while still getting ripped in the end.

[CliffStamp]

There is no drastic reduction in calories in Atkins, as advised you eat until you are full throughout the entire stage of the diet.

As noted, except for the brief period where you change from glucose -> fat, LBM is conserved. Stating otherwise doesn't prove anything, provide actual studies which show otherwise, or at least make some kind of logical deduction from known biological principles.

If you eat high carb you are keeping your body in the pathways to burn primarily glucose, on a diet you want it to burn fat, so it seems rather obvious that ketosis would be optimal.

You also can't simply ignore the list of bodybuilders who have used ketogenic diets to well success, some of whom were know for setting a standard for defination.

-Cliff