DNA Nutritional Programming/ HGH

[Melt Down]

I have had great success with this revolutionary way to determine what genetic nutritional areas in which I'm lacking in, has anyone else had results or looked into this?

I had used other HGH products(spays/pills/etc.) with some success but know I switched to products designed by Klatz/Goldman and have had triple the success. Has anyone else tried these products?

[Maxima]

Originally Posted by Melt Down

I have had great success with this revolutionary way to determine what genetic nutritional areas in which I'm lacking in, has anyone else had results or looked into this?

I had used other HGH products(spays/pills/etc.) with some success but know I switched to products designed by Klatz/Goldman and have had triple the success. Has anyone else tried these products?

Are you going to put this into every thread? Seriously go to a sight where people are discussing somthing besides fitness to sell your junk, people here no there is no magic shortcut short of talking to a pharmacist.

[Maxima]

Originally Posted by Maxima

Are you going to put this into every thread? Seriously go to a sight where people are discussing somthing besides fitness to sell your junk, people here no there is no magic shortcut short of talking to a pharmacist.

OK in the Training thread you question my knowledge and Cursor warned you to do your homework before you bash members of this forum (me), to which you reply, if you can't stand the heat don't get in the kitchen.

Well I'm getting in the kitchen so let's have ourselves a little debate if you can keep up.

I know about HGH and I am very sure my understanding far exceeds yours. I seek out seminars where people like you are trying to take advantage of people who do not know any better, and I have even confronted another person such as yourself on this forum. This is much more rewarding in person to see you people up on the stand saying “um” and shuffling your papers in front of a crowd but I will go ahead and give you a little lesson so that you can retire and hide behind your computer.

For those who want a short background on Human Growth Hormone continue, if you are just interested in whether this guy’s product works skip down to “Does the product your trying to sell work?”

Human Growth Hormone (HGH) is the most abundant hormone produced by the pituitary gland (one of the endocrine glands). The pituitary gland is located in the center of the brain. HGH is made up of 191 amino acids - making it fairly large for a hormone. In fact, it is the largest protein created by the Pituitary gland. Previous bodybuilders use to actually get HGH from cadavers, but the danger of catching a disease was also a possibility.

Recombinant Growth Hormone is GH that is synthesized in the lab. It is a biosynthetic hormone that is identical to human growth hormone. Creating an exact replicate of HGH is not an easy task because you have to replicate 191 amino acids. Eli Lilly created the first 191 amino acid hormone that was identical to HGH produced by the pituitary gland. The drug is called Humatrope and is the most widely used recombinant growth hormone today.

Growth Hormone is known to be critical for tissue repair, muscle growth, healing, brain function, physical and mental health, bone strength, energy and metabolism. In short, it is very important to just about every aspect of our life. Basically, anything that goes on in your body is in some way tied to HGH. This is why HGH is often called the "fountain of youth". Elevated HGH levels are what makes you feel young again. The bad news is that as you get past about 20 years old, your body produces less and less HGH each year. By age 60 you will probably have lost 75% of the HGH that your body produced. To my knowledge no one has found the exact cause of this, there have been theories but nothing concrete.

Research indicates that our body is very capable at the age of 40 to have the same makeup as we did at the age of 20. So the real question how to increase HGH levels. A doctor can do a daily injection of this recombinant GH and it will lead to an overall increase of growth hormone in the body. It is important to understand that recombinant GH is only available in injection form. The 191 amino acid hormone is too delicate to be made in any oral form. That is why your product is worthless.

While numerous studies have been done on the effects of HGH injections, the most ground breaking study was done by Dr. Rudman and published in the New England Journal of Medicine on July 5, 1990. The journal reported that men who had taken HGH injections had shown a 8.8 percent gain in lean body mass with a 14 percent loss in body fat - without any change in diet or activity.


Does the product your trying to sell work?


No! I hate to be the one to break the news to you, but most companies in the HGH market are out to make a quick buck with exaggerated claims. Here are some claims you will see:

* "HGH will give you a 8.8% increase in muscle mass and a 14.4% loss of fat - without dieting or exercise!"
Technically, they are not lying when they quote Dr. Rudman's number. With HGH Injections, Dr. Rudman did see a 8.8% increase in muscle mass and a 14.4% loss of fat. The problem is, they are not selling HGH Injections! These companies do not provide any evidence that their pill, powder or spray will have the same results as HGH Injections.

* "Our spray/pill/powder contains real HGH! "
This statement is at best a tremendous exaggeration and at worst a complete lie. There are a couple of reasons why companies who claim to have a significant amount of HGH in their products are not being truthful. First, HGH is a prescription drug. If you put significant amounts of HGH in a dietary supplement it is no longer a supplement - it is a drug. As a drug it must meet FDA approval and only sold with prescription. So, the phrase HGH dietary supplement is an oxymoron. If a product has a significant amount of HGH, it is a drug.

HGH is a delicate and complex 191 amino acid hormone. This brings up the second problem with the above claim - you can not take HGH orally. So, even if a company wanted to break the law and sell HGH as a pill/spray or powder - it would not work because the HGH would break down before it ever reaches the bloodstream.

Finally, you have a financial problem with the above claim. Give Eli Lilly a call and see how much 200 micrograms (the amount a 40 year old secretes each day) of recombinant GH cost. You will quickly find out that the math just doesn't work. How can they sell a 1 month supply for $100 when the raw material would cost over $1,000 a month?
There is a case when the above claim can be true - but very exaggerated. The FDA has determined that if there is less than 2001 nanograms (ng) of the HGH drug present in a supplement - it is NOT considered a drug. The theory is that in such small trace amounts, the drug has no impact so it is not classified as a drug. Let's look at what a nanogram is...
1,000 nanograms (ng) = 1 microgram (µg)
1,000,000 micrograms = 1 gram

So, even a product that had the highest legal amount of HGH would only have 2 micrograms. Dr. Rudman gave his patients 49,500 microgram - three times a week! What this means is that technically and legally you could make the claim that your product contains real HGH. The problem is, that claim is pure marketing hype. It is not a significant source of HGH.

* "Our product is FDA approved"
There are no FDA Approved Dietary Supplements. The simple truth is that the FDA does not approve or disapprove of Dietary Supplements. The Dietary Supplements Health and Education Act (DSHEA) of 1994 says that Dietary Supplements do not need FDA approval. This is why there are so many supplements on the market - there is no approval process.

I'll post this in the other threads that you have posted in just to make sure you get the message. You will not try and sell these false claims at this websight without being challenged by me. Bring your other "mirable" products and I will do the same to them.

[cursor]

Looks like the ball's in your court (whoops, I mean kitchen), Melt Down. I'd be interested in seeing this conversation continue, and in learning what I can from it.

[Steve]

Thanx Maxima for the explanation. Now I have a question. Are there to your knowledge any supplements that can "boost" GH levels? What "tells" the pituitary gland to produce GH?

Thanx

Steve

[Maxima]

Originally Posted by Steve

Thanx Maxima for the explanation. Now I have a question. Are there to your knowledge any supplements that can "boost" GH levels? What "tells" the pituitary gland to produce GH?

Thanx

Steve

Because nothing concrete has been proven on why this effect takes place as we age (growth hormone decreases) people can only guess. The first theories were that the pituitary gland just didn't have the capacity to produce large amounts of HGH as we get older. However the somatotrophe cell, the cell in the pituitary has been shown to not do this. The next theories are that the pituitary gland does not "know" it should be producing more HGH. Our body has a feedback loop that says when the IGF-1 levels decrease, produce more HGH. For some unknown reason it is possible that this loop is broken and the pituitary gland has a harder time getting the signal to produce more HGH as we age.

Another theory is that as we get older our Somatostatin levels increase. Somatostatin is a natural inhibitor to growth hormone. So, as we age the somatostatin levels increase and this leads to a decrease in HGH.

However as stated these are all theories to this day. My best advice is to stay active lift heavy, and eat protein every 3-4 hours to keep HGH and IGF-1 levels high. I am sure that Cursor living the lifestyle he lives can tell you that muscle growth and fat loss are just as attainable no matter what your age and that sound activity and diet go further than hormone replacement. I would even venture to say that his circulating HGH levels are higher than the levels of an average 40 year old, as I posted in another post in the "supplement and drug" section where MeltDown started a thread.

[Steve]

Ok....so it seems no supp will increase GH.
Cheers

Steve

[jay`]

a while ago i thought i'd try a bottle of HGH (Herb Valley), it was cheap as chips, so i thought it would'nt hurt to try. the ingredients read:
each tab contains:
8mg (24iu) Somatropin (recumbinant Growth Hormone) 7X
just bullsh!t you think?
i never thought they would do a great deal, perhaps give a little boost to produce a little more HGH, but this thread has helped me understand the technicalities involved in the HGH process.

[Maxima]

Originally Posted by Steve

Ok....so it seems no supp will increase GH.
Cheers

Steve

There was an amino acid that I read about in Flex that was suppose to increase HGH levels. Can't remeber the name but at the time I knew a pharamicist and he hooked me up with a bottle of it (it was expenisve.) The amounts that they were talking about were ridiculously big and if you think that pure creatine by itself tastes bad you have not exprienced anything. I did it for about 3 weeks (nearly threw up each time I took it) and saw no gains.

Remember the cause and effect syndrome when evaluating supplements. This is true for HGH and other supplements like L-Carnitine. L-Carnitine is used by the body to convert fat into energy in the mitochondria of the cell which produces coenzyme A. HGH is converted into IGF-1 in the liver.

Just because you take in obundant supplies of L-Carnitine does not necessarily mean that your body is going to use it to convert fat into energy, and just because your HGH levels increase does not necessarily mean that your liver will convert it into IGF-1. Evaluate the effect not the cause when looking at supplements, because that is what is going to produce the desired results, just my .02

[Melt Down]

Here are the facts look them up for yourself: And when your done READ ON!
*Ambrosone, C. B., J. L. Freudenheim, et al. (1999). "Manganese superoxide dismutase (MnSOD) genetic polymorphisms, dietary antioxidants, and risk of breast cancer." Cancer Res 59(3): 602-6.
* Bailey, L.B., J.F. Gregory . (1999)."Polymorphisms of methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase and other enzymes: metabolic significance, risks and impact on folate requirement." J Nutr 129(5): 919-22
* Bailey, L.B., J.F. Gregory. (1999). "Folate metabolism and requirements." J Nutr 129(4): 779-82
* Borgstahl, G. E., H. E. Parge, et al. (1996). "Human mitochondrial manganese superoxide dismutase polymorphic variant Ile58Thr reduces activity by destabilizing the tetrameric interface." Biochemistry 35(14): 4287-97.
* Bosron, W.F., L. Ting-Kai (1986). "Genetic polymorphism of human liver alcohol and aldehyde dehydrogenases, and their relationship to alcohol metabolism and alcoholism." Hepatology 6(3): 502 - 510
* Chango, A., F. Boisson, et al. (2000). "The effect of 677C-->T and 1298A-->C mutations on plasma homocysteine and 5,10-methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase activity in healthy subjects." Br J Nutr 83(6): 593-6.
* Cheng, T., Z. Zhu et al. (2001). "Effects of multinutrient supplementation on antioxidant defense systems in healthy human beings." J Nutr Biochem 12(7): 388-395.
* Chistyakov, D. A., Savost'anov, et al. (2001). "Polymorphisms in the Mn-SOD and EC-SOD genes and their relationship to diabetic neuropathy in type 1 diabetes mellitus." BMC Med Genet 2(1): 4.
* Cosma, G., F. Crofts, et al. (1993). "Relationship between genotype and function of the human CYP1A1 gene." J Toxicol Environ Health 40(2-3): 309-16.
* Crabb, D. W., H. J. Edenberg, et al. (1989). "Genotypes for aldehyde dehydrogenase deficiency and alcohol sensitivity. The inactive ALDH2(2) allele is dominant." J Clin Invest 83(1): 314-6.
* Crofts, F., E. Taioli, et al. (1994). "Functional significance of different human CYP1A1 genotypes." Carcinogenesis 15(12): 2961-3.
* Cronin K A, Krebs-Smith S M, Feuer E J, Troiano R P, Ballard-Barbash R. (2001 May). "Evaluating the impact of population changes in diet, physical activity, and weight status on population risk for colon cancer (United States)". Cancer Causes Control 12(4):305-16.
* Dekou, V., P. Whincup, et al. (2001). "The effect of the C677T and A1298C polymorphisms in the methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase gene on homocysteine levels in elderly men and women from the British regional heart study." Atherosclerosis 154(3): 659-66.
* Department of Health, London; Stationary Office (2000). Committee on Medical Aspects of Food and Nutrition Policy. Folic acid and the prevention of disease.
* Fennell, T. R., J. P. MacNeela, et al. (2000). "Hemoglobin adducts from acrylonitrile and ethylene oxide in cigarette smokers: effects of glutathione S-transferase T1-null and M1-null genotypes." Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev 9(7): 705-12.
* Fohr I.O., R. Prinz-Lnagenohl, et al. (2002). "10-Methyleneterahydrofolate reductase genotype determines the plasma homocysteine-lowering effect of supplementation with 5-methyltetrahydrofolate or folic acid in healthy young women." American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 75: 275 - 82
* Fontana, R. J., K. S. Lown, et al. (1999). "Effects of a chargrilled meat diet on expression of CYP3A, CYP1A, and P- glycoprotein levels in healthy volunteers." Gastroenterology 117(1): 89-98.
* Fowke JH, Longcope C, Hebert JR. (2000) "Brassica Vegetable Consumption Shifts Estrogen Metabolism in Healthy Postmenopausal Women." Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev 9(8):773-779.
* Gao, X., T. Albena, Dinkova-Kostova, P. Talalay (2001). "Powerful and prolonged protection of human retinal pigment epithelial cells, keratinocytes, and mouse leukemia cells against oxidative damage: The indirect antioxidant effects of sulforaphane." PNAS 98(26): 15221 - 15226.
* Getahun SM, Chung FL.. (1999). "Conversion of glucosinolates to isothiocyanates in humans after ingestion of cooked watercress." Cancer Epidemiology Biomarkers Preview 8(5): 447 - 451.
* Giovannucci, E. (1999). "Nutritional factors in human cancers." Adv Exp Med Biol 472: 29-42.
* Giovannucci, E. M.J. Stampfer, et al. (1998). "Multivitamin use, folate, and colon cancer in women in the Nurses' Health Study." Annals of Internal Medicine 129: 517 – 524
* Guyonnet, D., Belloir, C., Suschetet, M., Siess, M.H., Le Bon, A.M. (2001) Antimutagenic activity of organosulfur compounds from Allium is associated with phase II enzyme induction. Mut Res 496(1-2)135-142
* Harada, S., D. P. Agarwal, et al. (2001). "Metabolic and ethnic determinants of alcohol drinking habits and vulnerability to alcohol-related disorder." Alcohol Clin Exp Res 25(5 Suppl ISBRA): 71S-75S.
* Inoue, K., T. Asao, et al. (2000). "Ethnic-related differences in the frequency distribution of genetic polymorphisms in the CYP1A1 and CYP1B1 genes in Japanese and Caucasian populations." Xenobiotica 30(3): 285-95.1.
* Jacques, P. F., A. G. Bostom, et al. (1996). "Relation between folate status, a common mutation in methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase, and plasma homocysteine concentrations." Circulation 93(1): 7-9.
* Kang, Z. C., S. J. Tsai, et al. (1999). "Quercetin inhibits benzo[a]pyrene-induced DNA adducts in human Hep G2 cells by altering cytochrome P-450 1A1 gene expression." Nutr Cancer 35(2): 175-9.
* Lampe, J.W., C.Chen et al. (2000). "Modulation of human glutathione S-transferases by botanically defined vegetable diets." Cancer Epidemiology Biomarkers Preview 9(8):787-93.
* Landi, S. (2000). "Mammalian class theta GST and differential susceptibility to carcinogens: a review." Mutat Res 463(3): 247-83.
* Lanza, E; Schatzkin, A, Daston, C, Corle, D; Freedman, L, Ballard-Barbash, R, Caan, B, Lance, P, Marshall, J, Iber, F, Shike, M, Weissfeld, J, Slattery, M, Paskett, E, Mateski, D, Albert, P, and the PPT Study Group (2001). "Implementation of a 4-y, high-fiber, high-fruit-and-vegetable, low-fat dietary intervention: results of dietary changes in the Polyp Prevention Trial 1, 2" Am J Clin Nutr 74:387-401
* Lin HJ, Probst-Hensch NM, Louie AD, Kau IH, Witte JS, Ingles SA, Frankl HD, Lee ER, Haile RW. (1998 Aug). "Glutathione transferase null genotype, broccoli, and lower prevalence of colorectal adenomas." Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev 7(8):647-52.
* London, S. J., J. M. Yuan, et al. (2000). "Isothiocyanates, glutathione S-transferase M1 and T1 polymorphisms, and lung-cancer risk: a prospective study of men in Shanghai, China." Lancet 356(9231): 724-9.
* Lutz, W. K. (1999). “Carcinogens in the diet vs overnutrition. Individual dietary habits, malnutrition, and genetic susceptibility modify carcinogenic potency and cancer risk.” Mutation Research 443: 251-258
* Michaud DS, Spiegelman D, et al..(1999). "Fruit and vegetable intake and incidence of bladder cancer in a male prospective cohort." J Natl Cancer Inst 91(7): 605-13.
* Miller MC 3rd, Mohrenweiser HW, Bell DA. (2001) “Genetic variability in susceptibility and response to toxicants.” Toxicol Lett 120(1-3):269-80
* Nijhoff, W.A., T.P. Mulder et al. (1995). "Effects of consumption of brussels sprouts on plasma and urinary glutathione S-transferase class-alpha and -pi in humans." Carcinogenesis 16(4): 955-7.
* Parke, D.V. (1999). "Antioxidants and disease prevention: mechanisms of action". Antioxidants in Human Health. CABI Publishing.
* Perera, F. P. and I. B. Weinstein (2000). "Molecular epidemiology: recent advances and future directions." Carcinogenesis 21(3): 517-24.
* Rozen, R. (2000). "Genetic modulation of homocysteinemia." Semin Thromb Hemost 26(3): 255-61.
* Sandhu MS, White IR, McPherson K. (2001). “Systematic review of the prospective cohort studies on meat consumption and colorectal cancer risk: a meta-analytical approach.” Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev 10(5): 439-46
* Schuppe HC, Wieneke P, Donat S, Fritsche E, Kohn FM, Abel J. (2000). “Xenobiotic metabolism, genetic polymorphisms and male infertility.” Andrologia 32(4-5): 255-62
* Sinha R, Chow WH, Kulldorff M, Denobile J, Butler J, Garcia-Closas M, Weil R, Hoover RN, Rothman N. (1999). “Well-done, grilled red meat increases the risk of colorectal adenomas.” Cancer Res 59(17): 4320-4
* Smith TJ, Yang CS. (2000). Effect of organosulfur compounds from garlic and cruciferous vegetables on drug metabolism enzymes.” Drug Metabol Drug Interact 17(1-4):23-49
* Spiteri, M. A., A. Bianco, et al. (2000). "Polymorphisms at the glutathione S-transferase, GSTP1 locus: a novel mechanism for susceptibility and development of atopic airway inflammation." Allergy 55(Suppl 61): 15-20.
* Steinkellner H, Rabot S, Freywald C, Nobis E, Scharf G, Chabicovsky M, Knasmuller S, Kassie F. (2001). “Effects of cruciferous vegetables and their constituents on drug metabolizing enzymes involved in the bioactivation of DNA-reactive dietary carcinogens.” Mutat Res 480-481: 285-97
* Strange, R. C., M. A. Spiteri, et al. (2001). "Glutathione-S-transferase family of enzymes." Mutat Res 482(1-2): 21-6.
* Sunder-Plassmann, G., M. Fodinger, et al. (2000). "Effect of high dose folic acid therapy on hyperhomocysteinemia in hemodialysis patients: results of the Vienna multicenter study." J Am Soc Nephrol 11(6): 1106-16.
* Take****a, T. and K. Morimoto (2000). "Accumulation of hemoglobin-associated acetaldehyde with habitual alcohol drinking in the atypical ALDH2 genotype." Alcohol Clin Exp Res 24(1): 1-7.
* Ueland, P. M., S. Hustad, et al. (2001). "Biological and clinical implications of the MTHFR C677T polymorphism." Trends Pharmacol Sci 22(4): 195-201.
* Vakevainen S, Tillonen J, Agarwal DP, Srivastava N, Salaspuro M. (2000). “High salivary acetaldehyde after a moderate dose of alcohol in ALDH2-deficient subjects: strong evidence for the local carcinogenic action of acetaldehyde.” Alcohol Clin Exp Res 22(4): 195-201
* Van Iersel, M.L., H. Verhagen et al. (1999). "The role of biotransformation in dietary (anti)carcinogenesis." Mutation Research 443(1-2): 259-70.
* Van Landeghem, G. F., P. Tabatabaie, et al. (1999). "Ethnic variation in the mitochondrial targeting sequence polymorphism of MnSOD." Hum Hered 49(4): 190-3.
* Verhoeff, B. J., M. D. Trip, et al. (1998). "The effect of a common methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase mutation on levels of homocysteine, folate, vitamin B12 and on the risk of premature atherosclerosis." Atherosclerosis 141(1): 161-6.
* Wang, X., B. Zuckerman, et al. (2002) "Maternal cigarette smoking, metabolic gene polymorphism, and infant birth weight." Journal of the American Medical Association 287(2): 195 - 202
* Willett WC. (1995). ”Diet, nutrition, and avoidable cancer”. Environ Health Perspect 103(Suppl 8): 165-170
* Williams JA, Martin FL, Muir GH, Hewer A, Grover PL, Phillips DH. (2000). “Metabolic activation of carcinogens and expression of various cytochromes P450 in human prostate tissue.” Carcinogenesis 21(9): 1683-9.
* Yamauchi M, Takeda K, Sakamoto K, Searashi Y, Uetake S, Kenichi And H, Toda G. (2001). “Association of polymorphism in the alcohol dehydrogenase 2 gene with alcohol-induced testicular atrophy.” Alcohol Clin Exp Res 25( Suppl 6): 16-8
* Yokoyama A, Muramatsu T, Ohmori T, Yokoyama T, Okuyama K, Takahashi H, Hasegawa Y, Higuchi S, Maruyama K, Shirakura K, Ishii H. (1998). “Alcohol-related cancers and aldehyde dehydrogenase-2 in Japanese alcoholics.” Carcinogenesis 19(8):1383-7
* Zhao B, Seow A, Lee EJ, Poh WT, Teh M, Eng P, Wang YT, Tan WC, Yu MC, Lee HP. (2001). “Dietary isothiocyanates, glutathione S-transferase -M1, -T1 polymorphisms and lung cancer risk among Chinese women in Singapore.” Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev 10(10): 1063-7
* Zusterzeel PL, Nelen WL, Roelofs HM, Peters WH, Blom HJ, Steegers EA. (2000). “Polymorphisms in biotransformation enzymes and the risk for recurrent early pregnancy loss.” Mol Hum Reprod 6(5): 474-8

[Melt Down]

DNA Nutritional Programming is what this POST is about NOT HGH So can you Please get on the same page!!!!

[Maxima]

Originally Posted by Melt Down

DNA Nutritional Programming is what this POST is about NOT HGH So can you Please get on the same page!!!!

Is that your best? Posting a bunch of references that are obviously based on nutrition and not the endocrine system, who needs to get on the same page??? Did you even read those before you posted them. When I first read your post I did not know exactly what you were trying to sell, but after looking in the supplement and drug forum I realized that your product proposes to increase your natural production of HGH.

http://www.discussfitness.com/showth...4&pagenumber=1

I confront every aspect of your post, the simple fact is that nothing has been shown as to why this decrease occurs. Anyone claiming that their product will counter act this is basing their claims on theory.

[cursor]

Boy, that's a long list of references, Melt Down. Which would you suggest are the most applicable 10? I'd like to research it, but I'd like to be steered to the most directly applicable stuff first. Thanks for any clarification that you can provide.

[Melt Down]

These are all applicable.... there are thousands more...
And why didn't my last posting to Maxima get listed or is someone preju..... since he is ???? ? ?????

[cursor]

As far as I am aware, there have been no post deletions. I even did a search on all posts by you to see if you might have posted to another forum. You're welcome to check yourself, of course. Simply click on the search button that's on the bottom row of one of your posts.

Thanks again for your input.