Help for a friend that has decided to go vegetarian...

[sillygirl]

Okay. Bare with me. I have a friend who is fairly new to the wonderful world of fitness & health. He recently enrolled in a "gym" class at the college we go to, where he lifts weights.

Background info on him. He's 20 years old, about 6'2", and 145 lbs. I kid you not. He is incredibly skinny. His brother [who is 23 years old and same build] is the exact same way. He has grown up eating pure garbage [entire totino's party pizzas in one sitting, pop tarts for breakfast, easy cheese squirted on doritos] and absolutely DESPISING any sort of fruit or vegetable. When taken to a salad bar, he made a salad out of bacon bits and ranch dressing, I am not joking.

He eats and eats and eats and his bodyfat is probably about 6%. Okay, maybe not that low, but he seems to not have an ounce of fat on him. He's a freak of nature! Of course he really has no muscle either, but that's why I'm posting here.

He's taken a recent interest in gaining some muscle. As I'm one of his friends and we're always joking around, any sort of nutritional advice I give is usually mocked or ridiculed by him. I took him grocery shopping once, and the entire trip was spent with him trying to convince me that he swore he heard consuming massive amounts of sugar [read: candy, junk food] was good for you.

He wasn't joking.

So he's interested in building muscle, but he dropped a bit of a bomb this evening. He wants to go vegetarian.

Haha. Yeah. I have absolutely nothing against it, as I do have several friends that are vegetarians or vegan. But they also have a solid understanding of proper nutrition, as where my guy friend here doesn't. At all.

I've been doing some research and I understand the Amino Acid/combining certain foods. He says he's still going to drink milk, eat tuna and egg whites. His biggest concern is mostly with poultry and beef.

How in the world do I go about introducing this to him? What is the best way to ease him into this? Understanding basic nutritional needs is daunting enough. He has no grasp of that and he wants to go vegetarian. I'm imagining me saying, "Yes, you'll need to be eating cereal in milk [for a good amino acid combo]" and him grabbing a box of Cookie Crisp or Fruity Pebbles...

The only fruit he likes is grapefruit. He'll also eat darker leaves of lettuce and spinach on occasion. I figure I'll get him started with a good Whey protein shake mix, and if he has one or two shakes a day [mixed with waterafter his workout and perhaps skim milk at night before he goes to bed], egg whites, and some tuna in his daily diet he should be okay as far as getting enough of the complete proteins. And then of course I'll also encourage him to eat natty PB sandwiches [on whole wheat bread, not the crustless Iron Kids white stuff he likes, hahahaha] and brown rice with beans and maybe an occasional veggie burger. As he's looking to bulk a bit [er, a LOT], I'll try make sure he's consuming enough calories and also getting enough carbs in [although hopefully those won't come from Snicker bars].

What are some other supplements he should be taking to make sure he's getting enough B-12 and Iron?

Ohh goodness, my head hurts. Any suggestions on how to properly go about this without completely scaring him back into a pizza-ice cream-candy loving fiend? Thanks so much you guys, I really appreciate this!

[sillygirl]

Also, as I'm used to dealing with only my own body type [gain bodyfat easily, short, female, used to be overweight and worked to slim down] and I'm not used to helping someone who is so pathetically scrawny [] bulk up, can you guys give me any tips? Should I keep his macronutrient split higher in carbs, as he obviously has no problem staying lean? Eek, thanks.

[Kitara]

I don't have time for more than 2 seconds, but just wanted to say that usually when people change their eating habits SO drastically so quickly it doesn't usually last.

[sillygirl]

(Bleh Kitara, that's exactly what I was thinking. )

[nate]

could it throw his body right out of wack and casue him to put on weight, the hole starvation mode thingy, just going from a really huge kj intake to a small one with out much fats etc?? (question not a statement)

[Octagon]

Originally Posted by sillygirl

Ohh goodness, my head hurts. Any suggestions on how to properly go about this without completely scaring him back into a pizza-ice cream-candy loving fiend? Thanks so much you guys, I really appreciate this!

Instead of focusing on the vegetarian aspect (which probably isn't going to change his diet all that much, oddly enough. i mean, totinos makes veggies pizzas too) maybe you could steer him toward some info on Type II diabetes because he sounds like a prime candidate.

One scare tactic you could drop into a conversation - tell him it used to be called 'adult onset diabetes' but docs are moving away from that phrase because even teens are getting it now - it's not something you get in your sixties after a lifetime of abuse anymore.

[Jaster]

Friends don't let Friends become vegetarians

[Lady C]

Originally Posted by Octagon

Instead of focusing on the vegetarian aspect maybe you could steer him toward some info on Type II diabetes because he sounds like a prime candidate.

One scare tactic you could drop into a conversation - tell him it used to be called 'adult onset diabetes' but docs are moving away from that phrase because even teens are getting it now - it's not something you get in your sixties after a lifetime of abuse anymore.

Type II diabetes is the fastest growing PREVENTABLE disease in America now. It is predicted to be considered at epedemic levels by 2010. Send him to this link if you want the scare tactic.

I think that the best thing for you to do with a person like this is to ask them to lay out a "detailed" diet for a week. Tell him if it comes in a box, can or other prepackaged container it is not allowed on the diet. This is an extreme but you will find out what he will eat real quick. Then disect the diet and show him how to calculate the protein/carb/fat values so that he can see for himself. If he insists on having something in the prepackaged areana then show him how to interpret the label.

Other than this you cannot help him until he is willing to learn for himself.

[sillygirl]

Excellent advice, you guys! Actually, after I posted this last night I flipped open one of my Oxygen magazines and there was an article about diabetes. The first thing that popped into my head was, "I should photocopy this and staple it to his forehead", lol.


I'm dragging him to a healthfood store tonight just to show him some tips. I'll keep you guys updated on how it goes...

[Shmackey]

First of all, tuna is not a vegetable. There, now that I got that out of the way...

I agree with Octagon that it probably won't even change his diet all that much. That said, this guy is custom made for some of the veggie burgers, slices, etc. out there. And if you get him to drink shakes, protein is not going to be an issue. Neither should iron, really, and B12 is only an issue for super-vegans. That said, just get him to take a cheap one-a-day multi and that's all set.

This guy could still eat all the doritos and salad dressing in the world, so the vegetarian thing is not the issue. He just seems to be incredibly misinformed about macronutrients (carbs, fat, protein) and about what's healthy.

[sillygirl]

"Incredibly misinformed" is an understatement. I'm not sure who to blame. His 14 year old brother was trying to convince me the other day that pizza is a healthfood.

When I started laughing and asked him to explain, he turned red in the face and [almost] screamed, "IT'S MADE OUT OF BREAD!"

Hahaha, yes folks, this is the future of America.

I believe my friend is only avoiding meat/chicken due to the inhumane treatment of animals at slaughtering plants, but I honestly have no idea. He's probably going vegetarian just to impress some girl, heh. It makes no sense to me, of course, but oh well. I'm not one to criticize over something like that. If he doesn't want to consume chicken or red meat, his choice.

[I actually don't consume any red meat myself either. Don't care for the taste of it. But I can't live without chicken...]

Here's another question. What in the heck is hydrolyzed plant/vegetable protein? The only info I'm finding on the 'net about it is that it's a hidden source of MSG...*scratches head*

[Lady C]

Here is some research . . .

Hydrolyzed Vegetable Protein (HVP) (sometimes referred to as Hydrolyzed Plant Protein) is widely used in the food industry as a savory flavoring agent to bring out the natural flavors in food. A chemical process called acid hydrolysis breaks down protein into amino acids from various food sources (corn, wheat, soybeans, cottonseed). Food scientists discovered that the protein in certain vegetables could be broken down and re-arranged to simulate the taste of meats. Many foods contain HVP, including processed foods such as bouillon, soup, sauce mixes, gravy, crackers, chips, instant soups, processed meat, frankfurters. If you are sensitive to monosodiumglutamate (MSG), it is important to note that some companies add MSG to Hydrolyzed Vegetable Protein products.

A flavor enhancer that comes from wheat and corn gluten, defatted soy flour and cottonseeds.

There are two basic types:

· Light, which is used primarily in vegetable, pork and poultry products
· Dark, which goes into meaty stews and broths, soups and sauces.

However, there are many themes and variations of the above. They are used in many foods, especially in bouillon's and soup and gravy mixes. It's the "meaty" flavor you taste.

Here's why it taste like meat... Beef tastes like beef, chicken tastes like chicken because the meat proteins are made up of amino acids (the building blocks of protein), how these amino acids are arranged in the protein, make for the different flavors or taste. Many years ago scientists discovered that the protein in certain vegetables could be re-arranged to simulate the taste of meats.

A very common vegetable used is the soybean, which is high in protein, and contains all the amino acids that meat does, but has to be "re-arranged" to get that "meaty" flavor. So.. It's "hydrolyzed" and presto! The result is a product that has a pleasant "Meaty" savory flavor. The Scientist that discovered this in 1886, was Julius Maggi, you may be familiar with "MAGGI" sauce, that was the first Hydrolyzed Vegetable Protein. HVP.

You will see it on labels as HPP, hydrolyzed Plant Protein, or Hydrolyzed Soy, Wheat or Corn Protein. We have two basic types at the Joe's store, a "Beefy" one (# 400) and one for light applications such as vegetable, poultry, pork, and veal products (# 410).

Another feature about HVP, is that it not only is good by it's self, but when added to a natural stock, or to meat, the natural flavors and HVP boost each other. In other words, 2 plus 2 = 5 (or more).

My research also showed many articles on the chemicals being added to produce HVP are unhealthy.

These "flavor enhancing" chemicals are added to an alarming number of foods and drinks we consume on a daily basis from supermarkets, health food stores, and restaurants.

Strong scientific evidence suggests these substances could cause brain damage in children, adolescents and adults; with strong emphasis on children and elderly individuals. They could affect the development of a child's nervous system; resulting in learning and emotional difficulties later in life. It has also been determined that the placental barrier is not an absolute barrier to the passage of excitotoxins; some such as cysteine can easily pass through from mother to child, and damage the developing brain of the baby.

MSG is added to all HVP and not listed on the ingredients, therefore, if you are allergic to MSG avoid all HVP products.