hypothetical question regarding diet

[threenorns]

i've been thinking about this whole calorie quandary ("how much do i need? how much is too much?" etc).

tell me if this makes any sense - i'm pretty certain i read it somewhere, but haven't a clue where and can't remember specifics:

wouldn't it be logical to base your calories on the amount of lean muscle mass you want to have?

ie, right now, i'm packing about 140lbs of lean weight (actual math sez about 148, but allowing for error and other stuff, say 140). let's say i want to keep that but reduce my bodyfat to, maybe, 12% - 12% should look good, right? better than 33, anyway.

okay, so if my lean mass is 140lbs and i have 12% bodyfat, then my overall weight should be around 140 / (1 - 0.12) = 159lbs. (dang... on a five-two frame, lol)

now, i don't need to calorically support the 12% fat, just the lean mass, so shouldn't i just eat enough calories to support 140lbs of lean mass and keep slamming the weights? wouldn't i then be preserving my existing mass and sloughing off the excess?

okay, taking this logically then, let's say i have 100lbs lean mass and i want 140lbs - by eating calories for 140lbs and working out, there might be an initial gain in excess weight but as the muscle increases, that should taper down until it hits negative growth at the end stage.

on the flip side, if i have 150lbs mass and i only want 110lbs (125lbs with 12% fat), then i would eat only enough to support 110lbs and muscle tissue should decrease to the calorie level.

just wondering if this makes any sense....

[SNPiccolo5]

Your logic makes sense, but just remember, if you find yourself losing too fast, then you're probably losing some muscle. Although we can plan something, and it should theoretically work out, we have to see what happens.

It's just like communism, in THEORY, it should work out.... but in practice, it's a miserable failure (don't bash this, I'm not expressing any sort of politicol/philisophical views in this statement whatsoever.)

-Tim

[threenorns]

ROFL!!!!

i think the real problem would be estimating activity levels on a weekly average basis....

[CF-OC_gal]

We've been promoting this kind of thinking on the healthy eating board I moderate, especially for people who yo yo diet. Just try eating at the level you want to be at for goal and your body will adjust over time. Then once you get there, there is no shift in eating habits to make for maintenance. Obviously if you have weight to lose then you create a caloric defict this way because you will be eating less calories than you need for maintenance at your current weight.

[threenorns]

LOL - i knew i read it somewhere!

[Lady C]

An easy target is, take what do you think you can weigh, say 130 and multiply that by 12 for your daily intake target. 130x12=1560. You will lose some fat and muscle. Eventually you will level off. That is when you will have to re-evaluate the whole diet. If you want to gain muscle then you will have to probably be more scientific about it. But at your level that won't be for another 50 lbs or so.

[JennFank]

hi everyone, I am new here and I need some help losing weight. I can't seem to lose the weight that I want to lose. I currently weigh about 165 pounds and want to cut it down to about 135 pounds but nothing seems to be working. I work out as much as I can in between my busy work day and such and I also try to eat healthy(with some junk food here and there) but the problem is that my energy levels are really low and I don't have the energy to work out as much as I should. Does anyone have any advice for me? Anything that can help please!

[threenorns]

first off, you really need to get specific in here.

for example, i'm 5'2" and if i weighed 165, i'd look damned fine at 17% bodyfat but bloody awful at 30%, if you follow my meaning.

what exercises do you do? how many times per week? what intensity/level?

what do you eat in an average week? you said "some" junk food - but what's that?

in general, the ONLY way to improve your body shape is to eat less than you burn. in here, you'll find all kinds of information about that - pay close attention to cursor and LadyC, in particular..

[Pelon]

Originally Posted by JennFank

hi everyone, I am new here and I need some help losing weight. I can't seem to lose the weight that I want to lose. I currently weigh about 165 pounds and want to cut it down to about 135 pounds but nothing seems to be working. I work out as much as I can in between my busy work day and such and I also try to eat healthy(with some junk food here and there) but the problem is that my energy levels are really low and I don't have the energy to work out as much as I should. Does anyone have any advice for me? Anything that can help please!

Welcome to the forum! Here are a few thoughts:

1) If you are stuck on a current level of fat, you either have to reduce calories or increase activity. There is no other option short of liposuction.

2) If you recently started working out, you might have gained water, glycogen, and muscle weight which is offsetting fat loss. Are your clothes looser? If so, your weight will probably start to drop off.

3) What do you define as eating healthy? Everyone has their own definition.

4) If you are always tired, increase the level of carbs in your diet. To maintain long term weight loss, you must exercise regularly, and if you aren't getting enough calories that won't happen.

5) Make time to exercise. Try getting up earlier and exercising before other activities sap your energy.

[cursor]

Originally Posted by threenorns

wouldn't it be logical to base your calories on the amount of lean muscle mass you want to have?

Everything that you put into your body should (ideally) depend on the amount meaningful, metabolically active tissue. That excludes body fat. What foods you include in your meal plan to collectively contribute to fuel stores should be a function of how you live and how your body processes food.

• Do you have a physically active job? (How, what kind?)
• Do you exercise regularly? (How, what kind?)
• Do you participate in sporting events? (How, what kind?)

Addtionally the length of time that you spend on these activities (and their intensity) should be considered.

If on a 2000 calorie per day plan, there are serious differences between the following three plans (in how the body responds to the specific chemistries that they offer):

1. 800 calories from protein
   800 calories from carbohydrates
   400 calories from fats
2. 200 calories from protein
   1200 calories from carbohydrates
   600 calories from fats
3. 200 calories from protein
   800 calories from carbohydrates
   1000 calories from fats

Additional considerations:

• What kind of protein?
• What kind of carbohydrates?
• What kind of fats?
• How much water?
• How much dietary fiber?
• How do you distribute your intake through the day?
• What's your metabolism like?
• Do you chew your food effectively?

How many calories you should eat is only ONE consideration.

[JennFank]

threenorns:
I definitely have a sweet tooth and usually after I eat I need to have a small piece of chocolate. I also love ice cream and I usually have ice cream about once a week, usually on the weekends.

I am enrolled in a gym and I participate in classes such as kick boxing, an ab class and sometimes but not regularly the spinning classes's but they are so hard.

In an average week I usually eat 3 meals a day, consisting of breakfast, which I usually have an orange juice and maybe some fruit or a bagel or with butter or cream cheese. Lunch, I usually have a salad and then some kind of chocolate and for dinner, I usually eat chicken with corn or salad. The only thing I really like is chicken and that is all I usually eat.

[JennFank]

Pelon:
Thanks for your help. How many calories should I be taking in per day? What kind of exercise should I be doing? Is it ok to just eat 3 meals per day or should I be eating more? Sorry for all the questions, but I really really want to lose weight.

[threenorns]

ooookay - from your questions, i'd guess you're at "raw beginner" stage.

step number one, listen to cursor and LadyC; when it comes to losing fat, they're two of the higher gurus in here.

MY opinion (which is not as informed as theirs) is that you're not eating enough and what you are eating is the wrong stuff in the wrong proportions.

look at it this way: you said "a small piece" of chocolate. to me, a small piece of chocolate is the size of a smartie (about half a gram). to my daughter, it's less than a whole bar. chocolate averages about 154 calories an ounce.

let's assume that with your "small pieces", you average, oh, 1.5 ounces a day (the average chocolate bar) and your total intake is 1200 calories (which is where ppl trying to lose weight usually head down to). that's 154 out of 1200 calories, which is 7.7%. then you add a dish of ice cream - two scoops is an average, and that's another 195 calories. if you're only allowed 1200 calories a day, why would you waste 17% of them on sugar and fat?

first off, figure out how much you want to weigh.

let's say you want to weigh 135lbs total and have a body fat percentage of 20% (which looks good, is achievable, and fairly easy to maintain for an average female who isn't into athletics as a lifestyle).

that means you want to end up with 135 X (1 minus desired bodyfat level) as your lean mass, or

135 X .8 = 108lbs lean mass

use that number (the lean mass) plus your activity level on any one of a dozen sites to pick a good calorie level. your best bet is to use several and average out the results. i'm just going to pick a number out of a hat and say 1800.

divide the calories into 45% for protein, 40% for carbs, and 15% for fat. based on 1800 calorie example, comes to 810 calories for protein, 720 for carbs, and 270 for fat. these ratios are flexible to a certain degree, but you don't want fat to go over 20% in any case.

divide protein and carb calories by 4 to get the total number of grams, divide fat calories by 9.

you therefore would need 202.5 grams of protein, 180 grams of carbs, and 30 grams of fat per day.

divide that into five small meals eaten every 2 - 3 hours with a slightly higher proportion of protein taken after your workouts and a slightly higher proportion of carbs at breakfast (which, in your example, is downright skimpy).

keep the amount of starchy carbs and processed food to a minimum. you say you love chocolate? too bad - time to bite the bullet and have it once a week, not every day.

you've gotta sit down and do the research. search the posts on this site, paying particular attention to the stickies and cursor's and LadyC's (take a look at cursor's progress pics, if you wanna see his expertise in action!).

learn about the impact various foodstuffs have on your body and its performance and decide how much you really want that fab bod reflected in the mirror.

(and this is all just to start!!! it's not as easy as some advertisers would have you believe - pop a couple shakes a day and waltz your way to a size 5 is all crap)

[JennFank]

Thanks for all your help. It is true what you said about a "small piece" of chocolate because to me a small piece if chocolate half of a chocolate bar. But like you said I have to suck it up and stop eating it everyday and just have it once a week. I never really did realize how much fat was in a piece of chocolate or ice cream, now that I am aware I will be more limited in the amounts that I eat. How can I eat so many times a day if I work all day long? I only get one lunch break for an hour and that is it.

[threenorns]

pack yourself several small snacks, even if it's just some cottage cheese mixed with fruit or a tuna sandwich, kinda thing. you could even go with a good-quality powerbar or protein shake. i'm sure you have to go to the bathroom, right? get my drift? doesn't take long to knock back a couple hundred healthy calories.

doing this will also help you keep binges under control and if it's chocolate-flavoured, you get your fix in, too.

about the ice cream, i buy non-fat yoghurt and freeze it. i also have an ice cream maker and i make a fair bit of gelato and sorbet. the only problem i have is getting to it before everyone else in the house, lol. even my ex's son, the one that was "too cool for school" and ate nothing but pizza and poutine (and NEVER DID put weight on his 135lb, 6'0 frame, the little turd!) ate the frozen yoghurt cups by the dozen if he could get them.