Vitamins

[sweetdream]

Since January 15th I decided not to eat meat and from then until June 3rd I ate all kinds of fish, salmon, tilapia, tuna, ect...

I read (and no I don't believe everything I read, but I know their is some truth to this) that the fish has extremely high levels of mercury, obviously something that is not good for human ingestion... I also read that consuming fish should be limited to 1-2 times per week!!!

so for 5 months I was consuming at LEAST 2 servings of fish products everyday, to boost my protein intake..I immediately siezed all fish eating and a week later seem to be fine and still manage to get what matters most back into me

i just see no reason for people who should know better, like someone who watches what they eat, and knows what they need to think they need supplements

[Maxgain]

Originally Posted by sweetdream

First of all, if our diet are so good? I am not talking about every single person on this planet.... because "our" diets aren't good. In fact I can picture over 50% of peoples diet's not being "good"

so what happened to you BEFORE you took all of these vitamins/mineral supplements--did your Dr. say you needed to because of deficiencies? do u limit certain foods? are you a vegetarian?

I am a vegetarian and do not take any of these and I got sick once in over a year because I caught it from someone else, my body rid of it on it's own WITHOUT relying on anti-biotics or added supplements in less than 5 days (I am sure you will come back and say -" see I DON'T get sick" but I'm trying to make a point that I without supplements I do not get sick)

The answers to every single question is that people:
1) aren't educated enough about nutrition
2) don't care
3) if they do care they don't get the right information because they rely on millions of websites that contradict themselves


As lift girl pointed out, I am referring to those who are AWARE of what they are eating, they they DO follow the guidelines of getting a variety of foods in their diet, decreases saturated fats and getting more fruits and veggies, the people who exercise as often as they should...these are the people that shouldn't need to take supplements

the typical American thinks they know what they should eat or that they should pick this instead of that, but guess what? in the end people reach for the piece of cake instead of the veggies, it's what people do


Again, you never explained how much you take these pills or what it is that you take but all I am saying is that taking a lot of pills with a lot of extra vitamins/minerals doesn't seem worth it. If I can survive, be completely healthy by being a vegetarian and not taking supplements, I can sure as hell argue that a carnivore is getting more nutrients that someone who doesn't have a clue what RDA even means

clearly we are never going to agree on this but I would like to know the amounts and doses of what you take if you are willing to share.

what you dont seem to be getting is the fact that fruit and veg do not supply adequate micro nutrients any more. Fruit and veg comes from all over the world and then is stored in warehouses. Studies have shown contents such of vitamin C to be only 10% of what is to be expected in an orange.
Crops are now mass produced rotation no longer used and soil is severely leached of minerals.
So if I am to eat the amount of fruit and veg to get the same nutrients my ancestor would of got when they practiced crop rotation and food went from field to the plate I would be consuming far too many simple sugars to be healthy.

so you can try to be as healthy as you can but unless you are growing your own or can afford to pay the local markets ridiculous prices you are being severely hindered by a greedy society.

Also you are young you have no idea of the effects of your diet. Not saying its bad but you have no evidence of its impact. You are sewing the seeds for later in life and only then will you find out. Youth allows many deficiencies to go unnoticed.

I have posted my supplement intake on the site before. Its about 10-20 tablets daily

[Maxgain]

Originally Posted by Klide

I take a multi and a fish oil... and I am not 100% convinced that I need the fish oil and I feel fine.

Feel fine? thats not exactly evidence for a supplement that supports the CV and nervous system ie disease brought on with advancing age. Unless you approaching 50 plus how would you know. supplements are health maintenance not some super hit. It stops progression of mainly silent diseases

[Maxgain]

Originally Posted by sweetdream

Since January 15th I decided not to eat meat and from then until June 3rd I ate all kinds of fish, salmon, tilapia, tuna, ect...

I read (and no I don't believe everything I read, but I know their is some truth to this) that the fish has extremely high levels of mercury, obviously something that is not good for human ingestion... I also read that consuming fish should be limited to 1-2 times per week!!!

so for 5 months I was consuming at LEAST 2 servings of fish products everyday, to boost my protein intake..I immediately siezed all fish eating and a week later seem to be fine and still manage to get what matters most back into me

i just see no reason for people who should know better, like someone who watches what they eat, and knows what they need to think they need supplements

thanks for backing my points. Thanks to todays industrialized world fish is no longer suitable to eat adequately.

Thank God for fish oil supplements

[Klide]

Hey dude... I am not tying to change your mind.

Rock on!

[sweetdream]

Originally Posted by Maxgain

what you dont seem to be getting is the fact that fruit and veg do not supply adequate micro nutrients any more. Fruit and veg comes from all over the world and then is stored in warehouses. Studies have shown contents such of vitamin C to be only 10% of what is to be expected in an orange.
Crops are now mass produced rotation no longer used and soil is severely leached of minerals.
So if I am to eat the amount of fruit and veg to get the same nutrients my ancestor would of got when they practiced crop rotation and food went from field to the plate I would be consuming far too many simple sugars to be healthy.

so you can try to be as healthy as you can but unless you are growing your own or can afford to pay the local markets ridiculous prices you are being severely hindered by a greedy society.

Also you are young you have no idea of the effects of your diet. Not saying its bad but you have no evidence of its impact. You are sewing the seeds for later in life and only then will you find out. Youth allows many deficiencies to go unnoticed.

I have posted my supplement intake on the site before. Its about 10-20 tablets daily

I am young?!? according to your profile you were born in 1984, making you 23..I'm 24..mmm I think 24 is older than 23?! or I could be wrong

I most certainly do have MANY ideas on the effects of my "vegetarian" diet if that is what you are implying.. I am aware of deficiencies out there and have ensured that my diet consists of things that will allow myself to not collapse

You do not know me, you do not know what I have researched and what I haven't and I wouldn't be arguing my point if I didn't..

10-20 tablets daily is out of control..
clearly, you are a hard headed individual who has a "my-way-or-no-way" out look and there is no sense in arguing with you, wasting both of our times typing on the internet to each other

we clearly disagree and this subject

[sweetdream]

Originally Posted by Maxgain

thanks for backing my points. Thanks to todays industrialized world fish is no longer suitable to eat adequately.

Thank God for fish oil supplements

P.S. one last thing.. on this subject, I am backing this supplement use because this would be considered someone who is deficient not someone who thinks taking 20 pills a day will make them live longer disease free than those who don't

P.P.S I wonder what ever happened to the original poster of this thread?! what did you decide to do Merrida?!

[sooner_ed]

I've been watching this thread and it has clearly turned very interesting. I would like to throw my two cents worth in here.

Let me make a few points:

1. Everyone's bodies are different so therefore they respond differently to the same stimuli.

2. Everyone's diets are different.

3. Everyone's activity level is different.

There's a common theme here: Everyone is different.

So the issue seems to be why take so many supplements if all you're going to do is piss them out. Based on everything and everyone being different, is there any way possible to know exactly what your body needs when it needs it?

If you have followed any of my postings over the last several months, you will know I've had great difficulty in my diet and working out. One of my postings was talking about my always having no energy whatsoever. It was easy to determine why. Just not so easy fixing it. I went to sick call here. The doc ran several blood labs and everything came back normal. As an aside, the one thing I was proud of was when they did an EKG and my heart rate was 48.

But anyway, back to the issue. I had my wife talk to my doctor back home about the problem. Guess what she said. Do exactly what I was doing at home but had stopped doing here. Take more vitamins E, C, and B complex. Yea, I'm taking what would be considered excess amounts of these but my body is using them. I would rather take too much and piss out the excess than to not have enough in my body.

We have to remember that everyone is different and in a different set of circumstances. I'm in Iraq working in 100 - 120 degree heat, unable to eat as much as I need because of drinking so much to stay hydrated and still hitting the gym and going running. I literally ran myself into the ground. However, I've made some adjustments, supplements being one of them. Since then, I have had absolutely no problems with my energy level.

How do we know how much is too much? I would say it's going to be different for everyone.

Anyway...just my two cents.

[Maxgain]

Originally Posted by sweetdream

I am young?!? according to your profile you were born in 1984, making you 23..I'm 24..mmm I think 24 is older than 23?! or I could be wrong

I most certainly do have MANY ideas on the effects of my "vegetarian" diet if that is what you are implying.. I am aware of deficiencies out there and have ensured that my diet consists of things that will allow myself to not collapse

Yes but I realise how bodies can cope with deficiency in youth since I am young. I thought I was fine tests showed otherwise.
I have had full digestive assay, mineral tests and risk factors for most common disease carried out . I have now being able to manipulate values to be optimal and feel great even though thought was fine before.

What actual evidence have you got that you have no deficiency that wont effect you later?

Originally Posted by sweetdream

10-20 tablets daily is out of control..
clearly, you are a hard headed individual who has a "my-way-or-no-way" out look and there is no sense in arguing with you, wasting both of our times typing on the internet to each other

we clearly disagree and this subject

Act 10-20 is a conservative estimate. Did you even search to see what they are? What qualification have you got to make such a blind sweeping statement?
All my supps are know to my health practitioner.

[Maxgain]

Originally Posted by sooner_ed

I
How do we know how much is too much? I would say it's going to be different for everyone.

Anyway...just my two cents.

Indeed, I know of some people who take infusions of 300g vitamin c for well being and swear by it, too high for me.

And does it matter if one is pissing some out what are they losing a few cents a month. Often the low dose are just as dear

[Merrida]

People need to keep in mind the RDA is based on what the absolute bare minimum vitamin requirements are to keep a sedentary person from dying or developing diseases like rickets. An active person needs much more. Of what, that also varies because people utilize vitamins differently,- it's very personal.

And I'll say it again, (and will brace for any argument),...vitamin C CAN be both water soluble and fat soluble depending on the type (Ester-C, Ascorbic Acid, and Ascorbyl Palmitate are processed and held in the body and utilized differently). Same with SOME of the B-vitamins (both fat and water).

However, on the flip side, I think that taking one regular dose multi-vitamin, multi-mineral, is sort of the body's insurance policy. I'd rather do this than spend extra money on mega-dosing on vitamins (especially these "packs" that get sold under often dubious design).

.

[sweetdream]

I think we all have good points whether we think the other is wrong or not

I will agree with sooner_ed that everyone is different and everyones circumstances are different

I do not have any evidence that I am deficient free...so I will ask..

if I was curious to see if I was deficient in any vitamin/mineral would it show up in a blood test? or would it be too early to tell? would I have to specifically ask my PCP to check vitamin/mineral levels or be more specific and ask for certain ones?

[Merrida]

It was not part of a standard pannel. My doctor, during my physical just got the idea and said, "you know what? I'm going to check your Vitamin-D." And he did. And there I was,....deficient. Beats me how that works or how deficient you need to be for it to first come to your doctor's attention and to show up on your bloodwork.

Good question.

.

[sooner_ed]

Ok, that's interesting. I guess it never dawned on me that a blood panel would be able to tell you if you're vitamin deficient. Interesting...

Next question: If you're deficient in any area (iron aside, I know that one), could it affect your overall energy level? I do have this problem fixed now but it would provide some confirmation as to why I was having the problem in the first place, to a point. I know part of the problem was just not eating enough.

Is there a place you can go to that lists all the vitamins and minerals there are, what each does, their benefits, and how much you need? A chart like that would be interesting.

Merrida, this ended up being a great post. I'm curious about this now.

[sweetdream]

Good questions Ed!

I am pretty sure a lack of vital vitamins/minerals and overall nutrients play a VERY VITAL role in energy levels, as a matter of fact it's one of the first listed. I mean without these nutrients, where does our body get it's energy? pretty sure the answer to that is through nutrients stored in bones which, again, is BAD news!

I have a vitamin/mineral chart in my personal training manual (American Counsel on Exercise)

Lists all and an RDA--> but going back at the bottom of the chart it says the numbers are for men and women 31-50