My starting pic, everyone let me know what you think

[steve2000]

I'm starting my weight gain diet on Monday 11/14/2005 and continuing it for 12 weeks. I'm currently 6'1" and 165lbs (it fluctuates depending on what kind of scale I'm on, but 165lbs is the lowest weight I've seen in awhile and it was with a digital bathroom scale in ****, highest being 176lbs on publix scale with clothes. I eventually want to get my own medical scale to use). My daily intake is like this;

Meal 1 8am: 80 grams protein, 81 carbs, 11.9 grams of fat
Meal 2 11am: 54 grams of protein, 46 carbs, .4 grams of fat
Meal 3 2pm: 40 grams of protein, 25 carbs, .4 grams of fat
Meal 4 5pm: 80 grams protein, 81 carbs, 11.9 grams of fat
Workout 6pm: Max-OT workout followed by Max-OT cardio
Meal 5 8pm: 82 grams of protein, 49 carbs, 1.9 grams of fat
Meal 6 11pm: 82 grams of protein, 81 carbs, 1.9 grams of fat

This makes a total daily intake of 418 grams of protein, 363 carbs, and 38.4 grams of fat. These numbers are based on recommendations off AST's website; http://www.ast-ss.com/asp/weight.asp I'm looking to get to about 185lbs and will do whatever it takes to get there. Some minor stats since I'm already pretty athletic;

Running distance - 3 miles on Mon, Wed, Fri - being put on hold while I gain weight and do Max-OT cardio
Pull ups - 9
Row-ups (not sure the correct term for this, using the 2 parallel bars about 12" apart and doing pull ups with them) - 14
Dips - 20
Push Ups - 80 (used to do 120, I've fallen off quite a bit, yuck!)

I'm hoping to see beginner gains since I've never dieted this (although I have dieted before) seriously and my previous gym experience was mostly moderate to high rep stuff. Everyone let me know what you think, I think my biggest area needing improvement is my upper chest (fills out shirts) and my back (also fills out shirts).

[KaiserSose]

418 gram of protein !!!

[threenorns]

oy - maybe not jump straight to that amount. the usual rule of thumb if you're planning on following a powerlifting type regime is start with 1.5 - 2g of protein per lb of bodyweight for a few weeks and then go from there.

jumping that high at the outset WILL put fat on, which is NOT what you want. you want muscle - fat just means wasted nutrients.

high reps will not get you the mass you want and certainly won't require the amount of nutrients you're planning to consume. get into a gym or at least get some weight on your back and drop the pushups to 10 or 20. borrow a kid or that cute chick next door or something.

[steve2000]

Originally Posted by threenorns

oy - maybe not jump straight to that amount. the usual rule of thumb if you're planning on following a powerlifting type regime is start with 1.5 - 2g of protein per lb of bodyweight for a few weeks and then go from there.

jumping that high at the outset WILL put fat on, which is NOT what you want. you want muscle - fat just means wasted nutrients.

high reps will not get you the mass you want and certainly won't require the amount of nutrients you're planning to consume. get into a gym or at least get some weight on your back and drop the pushups to 10 or 20. borrow a kid or that cute chick next door or something.

I'm not doing high-reps anymore. The nutrient levels are off of AST's website and based on a 185lb 21yr old ectomorph that is extremely active (Being me at my target weight) so I've established my diet levels around that.

http://www.ast-ss.com/asp/weight.asp

[threenorns]

but that's him - not you. never mind what someone else is doing - start with 1.5 grams protein per pound of bodyweight - that's 247.5grams per day. if you eat for a 185lb body, you'll just gain fat. excess fat does not improve your physical condition or strength. you're already wonderfully lean, so excess fat won't even improve your appearance - it'll just make you look puffed up.

so you start with that amount, take your body measurements now (chest, shoulders, upper arms, waist, thighs, calves) and do your workouts - "high reps", btw, is anything over 10, generally speaking. give it three weeks and then evaluate your progress. if you find you've packed on a lot of muscle mass, take the protein up to 2g per lb - repeat from the beginning.

[steve2000]

Originally Posted by threenorns

but that's him - not you. never mind what someone else is doing - start with 1.5 grams protein per pound of bodyweight - that's 247.5grams per day. if you eat for a 185lb body, you'll just gain fat. excess fat does not improve your physical condition or strength. you're already wonderfully lean, so excess fat won't even improve your appearance - it'll just make you look puffed up.

so you start with that amount, take your body measurements now (chest, shoulders, upper arms, waist, thighs, calves) and do your workouts - "high reps", btw, is anything over 10, generally speaking. give it three weeks and then evaluate your progress. if you find you've packed on a lot of muscle mass, take the protein up to 2g per lb - repeat from the beginning.

Please read more carefully. AST is a company not a person, the person that created the calculator has a Bachelors in Sports Physiology (make him more reputable than you or I, sorry). I'm not doing 10+ rep workouts anymore, I will be doing Max-OT (4-6 reps). Im always open to criticism and advice but please make sure you are qualified to give it. I don't find myself qualified to give advice and I was on Track team and Swim team and regularly compete in local events and place very competitively. Whether I am packing large quantities of muscle or not I am definately in the top 5% of the population in terms of fitness, yet I'm still not educated enough to give advice. I would prefer people with more experience in BETTER shape then me be the ones to tell me what I should be doing/not doing. If they tell me the same thing then great, but I'd prefer it from their mouth.

[threenorns]

you didn't say you were doing max-ot, you said you were doing max-ot cardio. as far as your initial post went, this was your proposed workout:

Running distance - 3 miles on Mon, Wed, Fri - being put on hold while I gain weight and do Max-OT cardio
Pull ups - 9
Row-ups (not sure the correct term for this, using the 2 parallel bars about 12" apart and doing pull ups with them) - 14
Dips - 20
Push Ups - 80 (used to do 120, I've fallen off quite a bit, yuck!)

if you want QUALIFIED ppl to comment on your workout routine, hon, you are SO in the wrong place.

i am very familiar with Max-OT, having followed it for a couple of months myself and i habitually recommend the site to others.

[Firehawk]

Originally Posted by steve2000

Please read more carefully. AST is a company not a person, the person that created the calculator has a Bachelors in Sports Physiology (make him more reputable than you or I, sorry). I'm not doing 10+ rep workouts anymore, I will be doing Max-OT (4-6 reps). Im always open to criticism and advice but please make sure you are qualified to give it. I would honestly prefer advice from the senior members who are in BETTER shape then me (and theres alot, and im sure they'll respond). If they tell me the same thing then great, but I'd prefer it from their mouth.

I like max OT but that calculator is ridiculously high in my opinion. They also assume you will be taking quite a few supplements, you'd know this if you read through the MAX OT Bible (free online, google it).

I'm not in better shape than you as far as fat is concerned but I'm alot bigger and stronger and I wouldn't even consume 400g protein for growth. Go 2g per lb of LBM at MOST for protein, get alot of carbs in you for energy. Both of those are important in growth, need the protein, but definitely need the energy. Your carbs should be double what you posted in my opinion. Cut some protein, jack those carbs up.

EDIT: I just added up your calories. The calorie intake seems pretty accurate for you. For me it's way too high when i use that calculator. No calculator will be that accurate, it's a ballpark figure. You'll have to play wth it. If you find yourself putting fat on then you'll have to cut back. If you find you aren't getting stronger then add calories.

I'd also increase your fat intake a little bit. Maybe get 60g of healthy fat a day, 200-230g protein is plenty for u, and the rest in carbs. That's about 500-550g carbs.

You did say you wanna grow right?

By the way, I know how to eat to get bigger and stronger, i just have a rough time losing fat . I've lost 74 lbs before but i hate it .

[steve2000]

Originally Posted by threenorns

you didn't say you were doing max-ot, you said you were doing max-ot cardio. as far as your initial post went, this was your proposed workout:


if you want QUALIFIED ppl to comment on your workout routine, hon, you are SO in the wrong place.

i am very familiar with Max-OT, having followed it for a couple of months myself and i habitually recommend the site to others.

I think you need to quote a few lines up INSIDE OF MY MEAL SCHEDULE where it says I'm doing Max-OT> I find it ironic that you recommend Max-OT and supposedly follow it, yet you ignore their nutritional advice scattered throughout hte reading material in their program and plastered throughout their site. I also find it pretty arrogant that you find yourself qualified to combat their advice. Please don't call me hon either, it implies you are above me "its a pat on my head over the internet" and if you feel the need to call me hon to pat me down with your opinion then just move to the next post. thanks a bunch!

[steve2000]

Originally Posted by Firehawk

I like max OT but that calculator is ridiculously high in my opinion. They also assume you will be taking quite a few supplements, you'd know this if you read through the MAX OT Bible (free online, google it).

I'm not in better shape than you as far as fat is concerned but I'm alot bigger and stronger and I wouldn't even consume 400g protein for growth. Go 2g per lb of LBM at MOST for protein, get alot of carbs in you for energy. Both of those are important in growth, need the protein, but definitely need the energy. Your carbs should be double what you posted in my opinion. Cut some protein, jack those carbs up.

I've read all of Max-OT and I'm taking Dymetadrine. I will note everything else you've said though.

[threenorns]

Originally Posted by steve2000

I think you need to quote a few lines up INSIDE OF MY MEAL SCHEDULE where it says I'm doing Max-OT> I find it ironic that you recommend Max-OT and supposedly follow it, yet you ignore their nutritional advice scattered throughout hte reading material in their program and plastered throughout their site. I also find it pretty arrogant that you find yourself qualified to combat their advice. Please don't call me hon either, it implies you are above me "its a pat on my head over the internet" and if you feel the need to call me hon to pat me down with your opinion then just move to the next post. thanks a bunch!

now who needs to read? i said "having followed it", which is past tense, as in, moved on to other stuff. i didn't see the comment "inside your meal schedule" because most ppl are organized enough to keep things separate for the reader's convenience.

no, i didn't follow the nutritional advice, because it was totally out of whack for me.

YES, you ARE allowed to "combat" their "advice" - they even tell you that themselves. there is no system set in stone that works for everybody all the time or there'd be no need for discussions, now would there? speaking of "arrogant", i think it's pretty arrogant that a newbie would "combat" the advice of someone with far more experience and study under their belt.

if you don't want comments, DON'T ASK.

[steve2000]

Originally Posted by threenorns

now who needs to read? i said "having followed it", which is past tense, as in, moved on to other stuff. i didn't see the comment "inside your meal schedule" because most ppl are organized enough to keep things separate for the reader's convenience.

no, i didn't follow the nutritional advice, because it was totally out of whack for me.

YES, you ARE allowed to "combat" their "advice" - they even tell you that themselves. there is no system set in stone that works for everybody all the time or there'd be no need for discussions, now would there? speaking of "arrogant", i think it's pretty arrogant that a newbie would "combat" the advice of someone with far more experience and study under their belt.

if you don't want comments, DON'T ASK.

me a newbie and you senior with more experience? I've been into fitness and some sort of physical conditioning since I was 12, seeing as I'm 21 that gives me 9 years experience. how much do you have? oh wait, youve been a member of an internet board for awhile and youve got 3k post count! sorry but that only means youve got more experience on your rear in front of a comp than me. last time i checked that doesnt built muscle or increase ones fitness level. sorry, I dont push out your comments because I think AST's advice is perfect, I just dont think you (Based on your pics) have any right telling other people about physical fitness. fitness is related to ones ability to perform acts of survival. Ive run 14 miles, how about you? if we were both put into a hostile situation that required us to survive I would be in a much better position to come out of it than you. lifting up a heavy rock and making posts on the internet doesnt make you senior to me, but me being able to run 14 miles and lift my body weight (can you lift yours?) makes me more fit than you.

[threenorns]

i'm 39 years old, SON, and i started at the gym when you were learning to tie your shoes.

[Firehawk]

Actually bro this broad is pretty damn strong. She can raw bench 155 x 3 and i've seen her do it. That's one hell of a respectable bench for a clean female lifter. She squats in the mid 200's as well, also pretty good for a female.

She knows her stuff dude.

I'm not too sharp on the supplements. I just looked up that one you said you were on, pretty interesting. Let us know how it works out for you.

I did Max OT for a year and i enjoyed it, but I like heavy lifting. I do a powerlifting type routine now, got away from MAX OT.

Threenorns you need to update your sig, those numbers ain't right .

[threenorns]

just a quick correction - my squat is just hovering around 200, but i expect to be at 225 by the end of the year.