Any one here train with a Heart Rate monitor.

[Axion]

I ride (a bike) about 60 miles (3 hours) a week. I have been doing this for a while, and I always ride with a HR monitor so i can keep myself in one of two target zones. ~140 for easy days ad ~160 for my more intense days.

Anyway, the thing I've noticed which I'm somewhat curious about, is that where I had expected to see my heart rate dropping for a percieved level of exertion, as my fitness impoves. Instead I have been noticing that while, for a given speed, my breating seems easier, and i feel like i'm not working as hard, but my HR is about the same.

[Lady C]

It means that the muscle (heart) is stonger now. That is why zone training doesn't always work for some people. You have to work until the heart or your breathing tells you you are working hard enough.

[2Scoops]

Originally Posted by Lady C

It means that the muscle (heart) is stonger now.

If the heart was stronger at the same workload shouldn't the HR be lower and not the same? More likely, your lactate tolerance has improved at those workloads and so the effort is perceived as less.

By working harder, so it feels as hard as it did before, you will be training closer to your lactate threshold again and be getting more quality training done (progression) as Lady C said.

HR based training is often criticised but rarely used properly. The key with regard to HR monitoring is that the HR is accurately determined and used effectively. So, the equations usually used (e.g. 220-age) aren't really good enough. Lab tests can be done to equate your HR to a percentage of your VO2max and to your lactate threshold, for example. So, while we can say 160bpm may still be 75% of your VO2max, your lactate threshold could have gone from 75% to 85% of your max from the training (hypothetical situation).

[Tuna Fish]

Axion-

Has your RESTING heart rate dropped? That's what you want to look for...

[2Scoops]

Originally Posted by Tuna Fish

Has your RESTING heart rate dropped? That's what you want to look for...

A drop in resting HR (RHR) would certainly indicate that the heart is getting stronger, but it doesn't answer Axion's question.

If the heart was truly 'stronger' at a set workload it would manifest as a lower HR due to an increased stroke volume. Since Axion is finding his workouts easier at the same HR and the same workload, it suggests the improvements in his perceived exertion are not hugely related to increased heart strength - but some other factor like an improvement in lactate threshold.

[Tuna Fish]

2scoops- I understand what you're saying; I agree.

However, I think there are too many variables involved in outdoor biking to establish a solid reference point from which to measure future progress (wind, slope of course, traffic, etc). There are other bike-related factors which influence HR readings: RPM/cadence and gear selection among others. (Ax- do you use a cyclo-computer in addition to your HR monitor...?)

Resting HR can be taken in a stable, repeatable environment and one can measure the outcome accurately by eliminating the variables that will inevitably skew the results of field tests.

Tuna

[Axion]

Yeah Tuna fish is defitly right. I'm the kid of person who is always pushing, so the reaon my heart rate hasen't gone down in during my rides, is because I always push hard enough that I'm around 160 BPM. As my heart get stronger, i just push harder.

My point was more this... when I started, if I was keeping up 160 BPM for my whole ride to work for example (6 miles ~20 min including stoplights and such) my breathing would be soooo heavy. like i was struggling to get every bit of air I could, my legs would also be burning. Now i keep up 160 BPM, and it often doesn't een feel like my legs or lungs are struggling that much.

Also when i started my rest HR was in the mind 60's, last time I checked (a few months ago now) it had dropped into the mid 40's.

[2Scoops]

Originally Posted by Axion

As my heart get stronger, i just push harder.

Sure, change your story now, why don't ya? :confused:

OK, so now the situation is that Axion is feeling less fatigue at higher workloads but still at 160bpm. But the decrease in fatigue is still due to an increase in your lactate tolerance and not from any increases in 'heart strength' - even though increases in heart strength have definitely occured.

Originally Posted by Axion

my breathing would be soooo heavy. like i was struggling to get every bit of air I could, my legs would also be burning. Now i keep up 160 BPM, and it often doesn't een feel like my legs or lungs are struggling that much.

Those signs quoted above are classic descriptors of exercising at or beyond your lactate threshold which has obviously now improved with training.

Heart strength just means an increase in blood pumped per beat. This has a knock on effect for VO2 at a given HR (since O2 comes from blood) and since HRmax doesn't change much at all, a stronger heart means an increase in VO2max which is why it is used as a useful predictor of fitness.

[Firehawk]

Perhaps his lung capacity has also increased...

[Firehawk]

Does HIIT cardio make your heart stronger? Dumb question, but I would like to know. I always hear that long endurance cardio makes the heart stronger, but HIIT cardio is for fat burning...

[2Scoops]

Even though fatigue from strenuous exercise makes people feel "out of breath", the normal capacity for lung ventilation does not limit maximal aerobic exercise performance for most healthy people.

This is because the lungs can provide more oxygen for blood than the heart can possibly deliver. Very rarely, an elite athlete can train his cardiovascular system to be so effective that it's cardiac output is so great that it doesn't get completely oxygenated in the lungs at very high intensities. Also several pulmonary diseases can destroy part of the lungs with can limit oxygenation of blood in advanced cases.

HIIT can result in a stronger heart but is better as part of a combination of moderate and high intensity exercise.

[Axion]

Originally Posted by 2Scoops

Sure, change your story now, why don't ya? :confused:

Umm sorry I wasn't trying to change my story. But riding isn't somthing I do purely for the cardio effect. It's a sport, i'm always trying to get faster. i am always trying to push my averge speed higher, when I do familiar routes.
At first I thought it would go w/out saying that as I got to be a better rider i'd ride faster, not just keep taking it easy at the same speed. But you had seemed to think that my workload was staying the same, so I tried to claroy this point.


sorry if you already got that..point I could tell if you were joking or not.

[2Scoops]

Originally Posted by Axion

sorry if you already got that..point I could tell if you were joking or not.

It's cool - I should have used this smiley -->

I was a bit confused though:
1st post:

Originally Posted by Axion

I have been noticing that while, for a given speed, my breating seems easier, and i feel like i'm not working as hard, but my HR is about the same.

2nd post:

Originally Posted by Axion

I always push hard enough that I'm around 160 BPM. As my heart get stronger, i just push harder.

No big deal :