frustrated...sorry, this is long

[persiankit]

Hi,
I’m on another message board, and I’m being ripped apart by everyone. I’ve been doing circuit training with a trainer, and my weight and bf has fluctuated. I started this in Aug 2004.
Everyone on the other board is telling me that what I’m doing does not count as weight training. We do 45 sec sets, sometimes double sets. I do struggle with the weights, so it’s not like I can do the 45 sec and feel nothing. I have increased my strength and the amount of weights I can lift since summer
Example: my first day, I did 3 push-ups on my toes, yesterday, I did 35....
And with regards to the bf test, these are my #'s...I was tested with Near-Infrared. My weight and bf has up and down since Aug. I’ve been tested 6 times all together.

age:25, height 5"2

August 2004
Weight: 130
bf%: 22.4
LBM:101

March 2005
weight:141 (ok, now I’m pissed)
bf%: 20.4
LBM:112


What I’ve been told by some others is that with the way I’m eating, and that circuit not being weight lifting...I could not have gained that much muscle...is that true? Im being told that my test results are not accurate.
And that my trainer is in idiot...he has a double masters, sports med, and nutrition. He is also ACSM.

My calories intake is around 1150, I was doing the 30/40/30. I drop the carbs and up the protein a while ago.


I’m just overwhelmed and confused with all the information.


When I talked to my trainer about my ratios, he said I was "eating like a body builder and that is not what I want."
And I’m not trying to get look that way, I want to tone, but not like that.

So if I don't want to gain muscle, just lose fat and tone, I shouldnt be eating more than 30% from protein?

[Lady C]

Originally Posted by persiankit

age:25, height 5"2 Female?
August 2004
Weight: 130
bf%: 22.4
LBM:101

March 2005
weight:141 (ok, now I’m pissed)
bf%: 20.4
LBM:112

If you noticed, all of the weight gain is in the form of muscle (LBM) and still a 2% drop in bodyfat. I would say you should graduate from the circuit training to heavier more typical bodybuilding style. You will see a difference in how long it takes your muscles to recover and how it will increase your metabolism

Originally Posted by persiankit

So if I don't want to gain muscle, just lose fat and tone, I shouldnt be eating more than 30% from protein?

There is no such thing as "tone up", it is really adding muscle and reducing bodyfat. So yes you do want to add muscle.

Originally Posted by persiankit

Hi, My calories intake is around 1150, I was doing the 30/40/30. I drop the carbs and up the protein a while ago.

This is probably not enough intake for a typical bodybuilding diet (speaking from my own experience at 5'-4" 120 lbs, ~1500 calories). Post a diet example of a day - both times and amounts would be helpful. I would probably agree that it is the diet but I can't say that for sure without more information.

[persiankit]

Calories Eaten Today
source grams cals %total
Total: 1179
Fat: 42 375 33%
Sat: 9 83 7%
Poly: 5 41 4%
Mono: 11 103 9%
Carbs: 95 329 29%
Fiber: 13 0 0%
Protein: 108 432 38%
Alcohol: 0 0 0%

1 cup 2% milk, 6oz espresso
3 egg whites, 1oz 2% cheddar
1 slice whole wheat bread, 1 TBSP PB
Apple
greek yogurt
10 almonds
salad:chicken, lettuce, 1 oz low fat swiss, 2 tbsp dressing

another day breakdown:
Calories Eaten Today
source grams cals %total
Total: 1138
Fat: 36 322 30%
Sat: 8 70 6%
Poly: 4 35 3%
Mono: 11 95 9%
Carbs: 111 377 35%
Fiber: 17 0 0%
Protein: 98 391 36%
Alcohol: 0 0 0%


If my goal is to lose weight, not increase mass...what ratios should I go for?

[Lady C]

It is not a RATIO function. It is how your body responds. How many meals a day are you eating? Yes, you do want to increase mass AND lose bodyfat - not lose scale weight. Scale weight means nothing in terms of how healthy you are. Your focus has been in the wrong areas. Fat Loss - fast & healthy Follow this for 2 weeks and report back.

If you want to lose bodyfat you need to understand how many calories it takes to maintain your current status. Then reduce that by 200 calories. If after two weeks or so you do not lose size (tape measure not scale) then reduce 100 calories more. To make this work you first have to find out what your maintenance level is.

[persiankit]

I have been eating about 1150 calories, doing 45-60 min cardio, and circut training.
If I ate any less I would be under 1000.
I eat about 6 times a day.

[Cort]

You must have one slow metabolism to GAIN weight while doing all that work and eating so little.

You're 100% sure that info is all accurate? The reason people question it is that is just highly unusual. Yet, if your metabolism is so low that you are gaining weight on so little fuel, you are going to have to provide yourself with even less to lose weight. That's just how it works.

[persiankit]

Im sure the info is correct, I use fitday to plan all meals.
My trainer and doc say that It ok for me to eat under 1200 with my level of activity. I had my thyroid checked over the summer and it seems to be fine.

And the gain is'nt fat, I lost 2%. But my goal is more to lose bf than to gain mass.

[persiankit]

yes, female....with long history of eating disorders.

[Cort]

with Fitday, you enter all the info manually right? I've been through that place before and a lot of the info they supply themselves is inaccurate.

I wasn't saying it isn't ok to eat that way, just saying it is unusual for someone to gain weight on so few calories. If you are gaining weight then you've got to cut back a little more until you stop gaining and eventually start losing.

The percentage change speaks of muscle gained, and yet very little fat loss.

29.12 lbs of fat starting out in August.
28.76 lbs of fat recently in March.

You have to burn more calories than you take in to lose weight. Currently, if you are gaining weight, you aren't. Simplest way I can put it.

quoting Lady C for truth.

If you want to lose bodyfat you need to understand how many calories it takes to maintain your current status. Then reduce that by 200 calories. If after two weeks or so you do not lose size (tape measure not scale) then reduce 100 calories more. To make this work you first have to find out what your maintenance level is.

If you are gaining weight, you're above your "maintenance" level.

[CF-OC_gal]

Originally Posted by persiankit

Im sure the info is correct, I use fitday to plan all meals.
My trainer and doc say that It ok for me to eat under 1200 with my level of activity. I had my thyroid checked over the summer and it seems to be fine.

And the gain is'nt fat, I lost 2%. But my goal is more to lose bf than to gain mass.

Get a new doctor. For someone who has previously had an eating disorder to be encouraged to eat less than 1200 calories per day is just plain wrong! You can barely get your RDA nutrients from food at that level. Your numbers are wrong somewhere too. How can you be 2% lower in body fat, only up 2 lbs in lean body mass and a whopping 11 lbs more in scale weight? Are you part camel or have you increased your bone density so much that it's affecting the scale?!?!?!? Think about it. Ask the people you pay for (your trainier and your doc) what the heck they mean. They need to explain their advice and be accountable to you.

Listen to what lady c and the others are saying and work at increasing your calories not decreasing them. If you are doing only cardio and bodyweight circuit training you need a heck of a lot of carbohydrates and glycogen to fuel your muscles not extra protein.

The bottom line to all this sounds like your goal is do you like what you see in the mirror. If you do then fine. Throw out the scale. If you don't then throw out the trainer and doctor and start again with advice from those with a track record of achieving what you are trying to do.


Welcome to DF

[Cort]

Originally Posted by Brat

Your numbers are wrong somewhere too. How can you be 2% lower in body fat, only up 2 lbs in lean body mass and a whopping 11 lbs more in scale weight?

The LBM difference is 11 lbs in the first post, unedited.

[CF-OC_gal]

Originally Posted by Cort

The LBM difference is 11 lbs in the first post, unedited.

OK, I see it now. Then my question would be why would a number on a scale make someone pissed if their body fat percentage has dropped by 2 % ? Something must still be wrong. A 10 lb gain in muscle would certainly make any woman feel "toned" and look a heck of a lot more compact (fit clothing better or smaller sizes) especially if it was evenly distributed.

20% body fat on a 5'2" woman at 141 is one muscular girl!

[persiankit]

Originally Posted by Lady C

It is not a RATIO function. It is how your body responds. How many meals a day are you eating? Yes, you do want to increase mass AND lose bodyfat - not lose scale weight. Scale weight means nothing in terms of how healthy you are. Your focus has been in the wrong areas. Fat Loss - fast & healthy Follow this for 2 weeks and report back.

If you want to lose bodyfat you need to understand how many calories it takes to maintain your current status. Then reduce that by 200 calories. If after two weeks or so you do not lose size (tape measure not scale) then reduce 100 calories more. To make this work you first have to find out what your maintenance level is.

With my activity level and 1150 calories a day?
Some are telling me Ive messed my metabolizm up and Im in starvation mode, others tell me to eat less.

[threenorns]

um, hi! way back when, i was morbidly obese - 220 at 5'2" and something like a million percent bodyfat, whatever it was to make me a size 28 (XXXL).

the doctor put me on 1500 calories a day, and i gained weight - 5lb in two weeks. he dropped it to 1200 calories a day, and i gained 2lbs in two weeks. he dropped it to 1000 calories a day, and i didn't gain or lose anything in a month. so i ended up on 750 calories a day for nine months.

once i hit 155 (size 14 or Large), he told me i needed to start a formal exercise program, and that's how i got into bodybuilding, but not until i'd been at the gym following the little program they gave me for a little over a month - on 750 calories a day.

i hooked up with someone at the gym who began training me, and he reworked my diet, taking it up gradually until my weight stabilized - i was eating about 3500 calories a day to keep my bodyweight at a lean 125lbs (size 5/7). it was very hard to maintain that, because that's not a set point - i kept dropping to 115 (size 3/5) which is really nasty-ugly on me - so we took my weight back up to 140 (size 7/9). exercise-wise, we had the 2hr workout six days a week, plus i had a half-hour on the stairclimber, plus i lived on the 18th floor and stopped taking the elevator (sometimes having to carry two toddlers the last three or four floors), plus i had no vehicle and had to walk or bike everywhere, plus twice a week i went dancing at the clubs (teetotal).

it sounds to me that what's happened is the system you were on did work at one point, but your body has evolved to where it's hit a stasis point. i go with Lady C and the "eat more" crowd - add an extra 100 calories (it isn't much) and see what happens.