Need input on (lack of) progress....

[Merrida]

I need some input from others regarding a unique problem I'm encountering with a client...

Female, early 30's, pear-shaped, high BF (subcutaneous -- her waist is rather small, comparatively). Her history always indicated medium-level intentsity workouts, I'd train her once a week, my impression was she did not push herself to substantial intensity, and her diet was in desperate need of help. This was last year and indicates her history prior to the beginning of 2005.

All this provides understanding in no or slow progress in BF reduction for last year.

Then, imagine a 6 month period of 100% inactivity. She returns and I'm immediately thinking, results should be swift becaue she'd typically respond as someone "new" to training where results come swiftly with the onset of consistent exercise.

An upcoming wedding puts us in "rush" mode with 12 weeks of preparation in which to work. Given this I customize/modify her program to accomodate this need -- trying to get maximum results in a relatively short period of time (we mutually understand this undertaking is short-term).

She eventually enlists in Weight Watchers (which she claims to be faithful to "mostly" -- with no way to verify, my inquiries lead me to believe about a 70% adherence,...reminder, big event = more determination than in the past).

She trains with me FOUR DAYS A WEEK, and occasionally a fifth. She wears a HR monitor, so I can see if she's truly applying herself, (she is). She's managing roughly 3 hours of cardio exercise on top of our training. She takes 1-2 days off for rest (to avoid over-training) per week. I put her on a 2 week conditioning program at the start, and then from that point we've done a modified version of 5-Factor Fitness. With her slow response (history) and need for formulaic structure, I knew high volume had to be key, the only way she'd truly get in what she lacked prior. She tended to not push herself in the past and our sessions are the only reason I can verify THIS time she's truly putting a solid effort into these weeks.

With four sessions a week (each body part being hit 2 x week, each workout varies day to day, but is consistent week to week, and she is technically making progress re: progressive overload and ability to advance),...where I can SEE what she's doing, I can verify the intensity of her workouts, we're strictly adhering to the program, I even meet with her to do cardio (again, to verify), and we incorporate HIIT (mind you, several weeks after she's been in training) -- to get her away from her low intensity cardio that has been her past history...

Her measurements are changing slightly (she's losing, but at a slower rate than I'd expect given her activity level), according to WW she's lost a total of 1.5 pounds in the past 7 weeks (?), and I feel like we're crawling here.

The deadline approaches. Reminder, this is short-term (12-weeks), not an ongoing method of training. I am not getting the impression she is overtraining (she demonstrated under-training prior to this and needs much prompting)...I value BF% and measurements more than WW scale weight, but even given that, doesn't this seem highly unusual?

Does anyone have any thoughts on why her progress might be THIS slow? I've never encountered this, especially training someone this frequently (ie: I can see for myself what she is and isn't doing).

My gut feels genetics (and diet) are culprit. My professional history has demonstrated greater results on clients I work with that I monitor even less closely,...so this is truly an unfamiliar experience for me. This is an important deal (her wedding),...and I'd truly value ANY input or thoughts anyone could share.

[threenorns]

never mind the weight - what's her size doing?

the only thing i can suggest is that she's NOT adhering to weight-watchers even as strictly as she thinks she is. my sister claims to eat only 900 calories a day - but she doesn't include her "little snackies" (like a bedtime snack of a half-bag of oreos). milk/cream/whitener/flavouring in tea or coffee also adds up bigtime if she, like me, goes through a couple gallons a day and that's just one example of hidden calories.

[CF-OC_gal]

I gather that you are confounded by her progress based on what you have her doing. You can only be responsible for the things that are under your control. The times she's not with you are out of your realm of influence.

She's getting married and is likely stressed out (even if not showing it) over all that has to be done, including losing weight. Stress hormones could be counteracting her expected progress.

I would tend to encourage someone to train for long term heath, not short term goals. Losing weight for a specific date or event is "stupid" IMHO. Do it enough times and it is like yoyo dieting. It's her perspective that's a problem and also her behaviour that's a problem. Unless she gets over it, there is nothing you can do for her. Now is not the time in her life (I would assume she's not wanting to hear that answer) to try and convince her of that.

If the magic # of lbs is all she is after have her go on a low carb diet and limit her fluid intake 10 days to a week before her wedding. No it is not smart, but it will get her the "temporary results" she is looking for. Then she can go back to whatever lifestyle she wants.

I know that is not what you would do. but to me it is just as silly as her expecting to follow a well thought out fitness program when she is only looking for a "magic pill" result. Changing behaviour is hard to do and it takes a long time. She'll likely work her ass off thinking that "more is better" rather than getting to the heart of the matter, the hard work, changing her ways/lifestyle. If her body isn't conditioned to working efficiently at a higher level then she's just going to have to wait until it catches up. She's likely doing more harm than good if she's overtraining.

Good luck with her.

[Merrida]

Yeah, that's what I was guessing too.

So many people, even when they "keep a log" of their foods, don't ultimately realize "all" of their food intake...whether it's realizing the sugar in condiments, or as you pointed out, the handful of snackies here and there that they think are inconsequential.

Since her diet is the only thing I can't personally witness,...I'm quite inclined to agree.

But even at that,...this woman is truly working her butt off (well, you know)....and to a woman, a formal wedding is such motivation in and of itself, I just truly expected to see more changes.

I was thinking.....hormones, genetics....I dunno. It's frustrating on my end as well because we both see how hard she's working and how much she's investing,...and she can't even go down ONE little ole dress size? With what I DO witness, I'd think she'd have to be severely over-eating to showing such incredibly minimal progress over several weeks,...wouldn't you think?

To not even lose 2 pounds working her tushie off over several weeks with a great deal of supervised and verified training....most people would at least show some visible changes, even if they were sneaking in a snickers bar once in a while...

Something in me is trying to come up with specific possibilities....

[Merrida]

Brat, I just read your post about long-term fitness vs. short term goals. As I stated earlier, she had trained with me in the past, (last year). She DOES train and has trained on a regular basis, and she does exercise on a regular basis for a healthy lifestyle. It IS part of her lifestyle. Her hiatus was for medical reasons (which have no bearing on her current abilities at this time).

I do train for lifestyle changes, and that's 95% of my work. But the reality is that there are special events in people's lives in which they want to invest in extra work for these events....such as actors during various movie roles, models for photo shoots, etc. It's not ideal or perfect, and she is not doing this with the idea that she'll never exercise again,... she works out on a regular basis, this is merely one instance of a very special event in which she wants to put a little more into it for this one special occasion. She is not looking for a magic pill in which she expects permanent results.

We're going into this fully honest and with realistic expectations of short- vs. long-term goals and training, how they vary, and the realistic aspects of these. There is real communication and realistic understandings of what we're doing.

As I said, not ideal to those of us who exercise or train for lifestyle investments. HER lifestyle investment does involve training, to a lesser degree, but this is a very special event in which we're trying to make some progress. We both know, anticipate and are accepting the "temporary" situation this brings, and given that, we're bending some rules normally applied to the rest of us following only lifestyle investments.

[CF-OC_gal]

My bad, I didn't grasp the notion of continuity in the original post. I guess this will be a learning experience about personal limitations then.

Best of luck to her. :

Hi Merrida, long time no see. Welcome, welcome!!!

Genetics may play a bit of a role, but I also have to agree with threenorns about her diet. When hunger pangs hit they demand to be satisfied. Is your client keeping a food log that contains the exact volume of everything she eats throughout the day? Only being at a 70% effort could very well sabotage her efforts. Seeing something in black and white that says she's only 50 calories below maintenance when it should be 500 calories less can make a big difference.

One last question -- have you tried any weight loss supplements? That could give her just the "push over the edge" she might need. Most Muscle has had good luck with "Hot Rocks" and the ban on ephedra has been struck down.

[Lady C]

I don't understand it either. But my experience with most people is that they do underestimate thier intake and portion sizes are way out of control. This is a tough concept to get over if you were trained, like me, to eat everything on your plate.

Wtih such a short time left before the big event, I would do a combination of the Hot rocks and the lower carb diet (like cutting out all starchy carbs except for post workout). She should be seeing dress size reduction even if the scale does not budge.

I'm out of ideas because I've never seen someone that does not respond to that much activity if thier diet is in check.

[cursor]

Originally Posted by Merrida

My gut feels genetics (and diet) are culprit.

I think you're right. Keep in mind though that 'genetics' (as a culprit) just means that the balance of exercise-to-fuel needs some fine tuning. My recommendation would be that you have her write down absolutely everything she puts into her mouth in a day (or better yet, several days' worth). Have her note the time of each morsel, as well (also noting the time of her workout sessions). Not only might it be a question of food volume, but her food choices may need some fine tuning. It sounds like she's committed to her conditioning goal and would probably be willing to genuinely participate in the 'exercise' (sorry, couldn't resist).

[Merrida]

This 'exercise,' eh? Cuuuuute!

With her wedding weeks away the closest to a food log I'm gaining is a "list" but she does not provide me with amounts. She "tells me" she's following the Weight Watchers "point system" so if I assume she's being faithful (mostly?) and staying within her alottment,....I've seen her food choices and 90% of them are actually quite smartly balanced. There are a few odd pieces out, but overall not bad....

I asked her for four days (2 weekend days plus 2 weekday days) and to see what her "dining" habits were. Her soft body implies sensitivities to carbs and looking at her diet, she's done a very, very good job elimininting refined carbs (she used to be a pasta junkie and pizza and white bread fiend, so I'm pleased with her changes).

But GIVEN those changes, how they vary from her established plan,...wouldn't that mean I'd/we'd SEE something by now? She isn't eating
"the same" but less....she's really done some revamping.

Again, with the understanding that, -- by her choice, -- this is "just for her wedding."

(Please don't get me started on that one though,....)

PS: Lady C,...big ditto's on that! THAT was my point exactly! I'm with her four to five days and I've verified her spin classes (only because I'm so frustrated), and I exercise WITH her so that I can be sure, for myself, that she's keeping in gear.... she not only has loss less than 2 lbs but she says her clothes fit the same. I've never seen this before....

[cursor]

That's pretty amazing. Hmmm ...

My impression is that its a question of food volume. The logging exercise should be revealing (particularly for her, I think).

[Merrida]

I swear, if I didn't see so her so much, and see so much for myself,.... (like if I trained her 1 x week) and she came to me with this,...I'd come up with all sorts of considerations. I just have never seen someone "not" respond to so much going on.....If this were told me to me, I'd never beleive it....but to see it (worse, to be a part of it, in my own way),...this is frustrating.

[CF-OC_gal]

It's a long shot but I've seen it happen with a bride I was making a wedding dress for. Most lose weight because of wedding and planning jitters. This one got more filled out as the wedding date approached.

It turned out that she was pregnant!

With my first pregnancy, I was in contest cutting mode. I could not lose weight no matter how I tried. Then I found out why.

[gymrat]

If she's being sketchy about her adherence to the plan, I'd wonder if she isn't a closet binge eater. Binge eaters often have a sense of entitlement after working out and often operate under the rationale that they've just worked out really hard so they deserve ....... whatever.

Binge eaters also tend to be vague about their adherence to a particular plan because they are ashamed and do not want to let their trainers/nutritionists down.

I'm a trainer as well and understand your dilemma. It might worth her time to get a blood panel done and rule out any medical issues that might be causing her to stagnate with her losses. Maybe also, she's working out too much while eating too little? This too can send the body into starvation mode.

Best of luck to both of you!

[Rad_MD]

Just curious. What is her HCG (ie pregnancy status)? LOL! Maybe she is eating for two? Does she have a Cushingoid appearance? Maybe there's an endocrinology issue...

http://www.vrp.com/graphics/NTA7CFig6.jpg

What's the update on her?