Which Exercise Should be Performed First: Resistance or Cardiovascular?

[MostMuscle]

The debate continues:




Recent research out of the Brigham Young University examined excess postexercise oxygen consumption (EPOC) after: 1) a single bouts of treadmill running, 2)resistance training, 3) combined treadmill running followed by resistance training, and 4) resistance training followed by treadmill running.

Ten physically active males volunteer for this study. Resistance training only consisted of three sets of ten repetitions at 70% 1RM for seven different exercises. Cardiovascular exercise consisted of 25 minutes of treadmill running at 70% VO2 max. The combined sessions consisted of treadmill before resistance training and resistance training before treadmill. Both used the same protocols as above, with a five minute rest in between applications.

During the first ten minutes following exercise, EPOC was significantly higher in both the resistance training only and treadmill running followed by resistance training than the other two groups. EPOC was greatest in the treadmill running followed by resistance training group.

From the results of this study, the authors recommend that those involved in recreational exercise perform cardiovascular exercise before resistance training, especially if they are concerned with weight loss.

Drummond MJ, Vehrs PR, Schaalje G, Parcell A. (2005). Aerobic and resistance exercise sequence affect excess postexercise oxygen consumption. Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research, 19(2):332–337. (8/15/2005)

[.V.]

There you go with the smart stuff again.

Does that explain why when I was 18 y/o, decided to join the fitness center, started doing 20 min on the dreadmill before lifting (not really lifting, just using 1 set of 10/body part each day on the nautilus machines - on the beginners line) I made faster results than I'm getting now? Faster results appearance wise anyway. I got much bigger muscles much faster, but not nearly as strong as I am now.

Sadly, I had a choice between a small town EMS (for slave wages) and a big city FD (for big money). I chose the small town because at the time they actually needed me...the other place just wanted me. There was no gym and I quit and lost all my progress and had to start all over again a couple of years ago after getting old and fat, sick and weak.

Ahh, there I go again getting off topic.... however your information is interesing and my question before the off topicness began is still there. And yes, I meant to type dreadmill instead of treadmill - I hate those things.

[cursor]

So, what is "excess postexercise oxygen consumption (EPOC)", and is it a desired condition or not?

Consider from the synopsis:

• Ten physically active males volunteer for this study.
• From the results of this study, the authors recommend that those involved in recreational exercise perform cardiovascular exercise before resistance training, especially if they are concerned with weight loss.

If they only tested the physically active, how can their conclusion be applied to all those "concerned with weight loss"? What other factors beyond EPOC contribute to weight loss (or more appropriately 'fat-loss')? Also note that no women were included in the study.

Do you have access to the full study, MostMuscle? I, for one, would be interested to read it. Thanks.

By the way, my father started the Athropology Department at Brigham Young University decades ago (now retired).

[threenorns]

personally, that pisses me off, that women are very rarely, if ever, included in studies unless the studies are specifically about women. women are NOT the same as men.

[MostMuscle]

Threenorns....I understand your concern, but take into account where this study was conducted (BYU).

Cursor, EPOC is desired as it is responsible for evelated caloric expenditure after exercise. I will see if I can email you the full study.

[CF-OC_gal]

I think this falls in line with the adage "do your priority in training first".

Lots of people reach their weight loss goals and conditioning this way (women too). It's just their goals are not always the same as everyone in the fitness game.

[Rats!]

I'd like to know what is considered "significant"

[Lady C]

Originally Posted by MostMuscle

Threenorns....I understand your concern, but take into account where this study was conducted (BYU)..

What does this statement mean? Are you implying that women athletes don't attend BYU? or that BYU doesn't have good research facilities?

Attending BYU in 1997, the ratio was 1.83 females for every male; the ratio has narrowed steadily each year since then. BYU offers 10 sports programs for women and 9 for men.

Please clarify?

[arbit]

Here is my take on it:
Resistance training puts the body into oxygen deficit - with lactic acid in the body which needs to be removed. This removal requires energy and hence oxygen
With moderate(70% max rate) cardio, there is no oxygen deficit - the oxyegen consumed during exercise is enough to sustain exercise (no LA production).
Now it takes 25 minutes after high intensity exercise to remove 50% of LA in body.

The study measured O2 consumption during the 10 minutes after exercise (the timing is important).
The results are exactly as one would predict.
1: Resistance training only --- O2 needed 10 min after exercise.
2: Cardio followed by Resistance --- bit more O2 needed, for cardio depleted glycogen, and then resistance training added LA.
3: Cardio only --- the least O2 needed, for no LA production(the dominant factor).
4:Resistance followed by cardio --- Note that doing cardio takes time. And during that time most of the LA would have been removed by the body. After the cardio body just needs to remove remaining LA.

The order one would predict is : Cardio < resistance+cardio < resistance<cardio+resistance.

And based on this the authors are saying cardio+resistance sequence is better for weight loss. Are they dumbasses or what???
*** Hmmm I do seem to have gained some knowledge from Dr Bompa's book

[Chain]

Most Muscle, did they only study the first 10 minutes post-exercise? That would be a shame if they went to all that trouble and only measured EPOC for 10 minutes. Anyone who got a "C" in exercise physiology could have predicted the results in the 1st 10 minutes since lactate is removed from the blood faster if you do cardio last.

I went to the NSCA's website but my membership expired 2 months ago so I can't see the whole study. Argh! lol

[arbit]

Originally Posted by Chain

Most Muscle, did they only study the first 10 minutes post-exercise? That would be a shame if they went to all that trouble and only measured EPOC for 10 minutes. Anyone who got a "C" in exercise physiology could have predicted the results in the 1st 10 minutes since lactate is removed from the blood faster if you do cardio last.

I went to the NSCA's website but my membership expired 2 months ago so I can't see the whole study. Argh! lol

Heh, u dont even need a "C" in exercise physiology. I've never taken any corse and even I cood predict the results

[Chain]

Originally Posted by arbit

Heh, u dont even need a "C" in exercise physiology. I've never taken any corse and even I cood predict the results

You're right man. But you read Bompa and his books are a good source. Did you read Serious Strength Training or Periodization? Hey, if you read Serious Strength Training was it the 1st or 2nd edition?

[arbit]

Originally Posted by Chain

You're right man. But you read Bompa and his books are a good source. Did you read Serious Strength Training or Periodization? Hey, if you read Serious Strength Training was it the 1st or 2nd edition?

I read a few chapters of Periodization: theory and methodology of training, 4th ed.
Actually I was not happy with the book at all. The book is not written well, info is scattered all over the place, one page quotes some paper on aerobic training, another page quotes a seemimgly contadictory result from another paper, a third page does something else etc.
The book is wordy, the book would have been clearer if the size was 40% less. I also feel the book should have been more technical and should have drawn connections between the various contradictory references.
The book was useful in the sense it at least made me aware of some issues related to performance (I'm interested in general for high intensity taekwondo practices - it takes cardio, and anaerobic endurane).
Amazon has all 5 star reviews, I should post a negative review there.

[Chain]

I wouldn't give Periodization 5 stars. Maybe 3 or 4. There is some good info in there. But you're right that there is some that just didn't need to be included and it could be better organized. Bompa has a lot of good information he just doesn't organize it well in that book. Serious Strength Training is better organized.