Building mass as you cut??

[mike314]

I just had like a 5 hour debate with some people at my gym, they argue that you can't build muscle mass as you cut, but rather just maintain it.

In theory the only way to build muscle is to bulk Y/N????

I say no because I once say a guy shed 25lbs while cutting and it seemed like he added inches to his biceps.

am I a complete idiot or I have a fair argument?

comments

[LiftGirl]

Well, it really depends. If the diet is perfect, or is the person has a lot of fat to lose, it's possible to cut and have the body use body fat for fuel for muscle building. A beginner also makes faster gains more easily.

Sorry I didn't give you a better answer.

[Firehawk]

Maybe he just looked bigger because he got leaner. People that are shredded always look bigger than fat people, even if the fat guy has alot more muscle under there.

[mesomorph]

Sorry mike314, but I suggest your gym buddies are correct. To build mass you have to have the building blocks in a slight over-supply. When you are training for mass, the intensity levels (weight lifted) increases therefore energy use is also increased. Caloric intake becomes crucial in constantly keeping the body's nutritional needs satisfied. Carb stores need to be constantly replenished or the body will then seek alternate fuel sources (protein?) Of course when training for building mass this is unacceptable. Therefore to be sure that nutrient needs will be met we tend to over-suppply so as to protect our building blocks ie we eat more.
When we "cut" we try to reduce body fat. To do so effectively while training we have to put the body into a caloric deficit ie to deny the body the over supply. In so doing the body is also vulnerable to a slight decreases in size/mass whilst reducing body fat. The resultant illusionary effect as described by Firehawk is where you have presumed an increase in mass. What you see is reduced body fat giving the appearance of larger muscles

[.V.]

I suggest that it can be done. I've done it and know others that have. I didn't get huge, but had more muscle at the end than I started with.

It is easier though to simply bulk, cut, repeat.

If your buddies would like to take the easy way out, then that's what they should do and watch theirselves lose muscle with each cut.

Preferably, you can show them better and build muscle while cutting. Not something worth arguing over because it has no winner...ever. Just do it and prove it can be done.

[minime]

possible yes.. optimal no. Really it will probably only work if like the others said you are a beginner, or you have a lot of fat to lose.

Since my weight is stable and I am a little leaner I guess i probably GAINED some muscle and LOST some fat, but maybe like a pound or two either way. The process is so slow, generally it will be better to just bulk, cut, repeat like welch said

[.V.]

I didn't say better. Just easier.

I do know one guy and it shames me to stand in his presence being so small and weak like I am. He does the bulking and cutting thing - just lean bulks which to me seems to be the best way to go. Then when he hits 11 or 12% bodyfat he cuts. Actually gains some muscle everytime he cuts. Not much, but keeps the same scale weight and still gets very lean before starting bulking again.

[~LV~]

It can be done if you are very new to this lifestyle or if you are just choosing to bulk VERY slow. It's VERY hard to do both at the same time simply due to the fact that there is not enough material present for growth when in a caloric deficit.

From an article on the power of protein:

The switch from glucose to ketone bodies spares the muscle tissue because during starvation our bodies breakdown muscle to make blood sugar. The name of the game survival-wise becomes conserving muscle tissue as long as possible. In an effort not to have to resort to muscle breakdown nature has designed us so that ketone bodies not only act as a blood sugar substitute but actually increase as well the degradation of junk proteins to provide the amino acids needed for both muscle maintenance and blood sugar conversion.

The body is an amazing organism. While building muscle while under a calorie restriction isn't optimal, it can be done.

[arbit]

Originally Posted by IronMan

From an article on the power of protein:

I have no respect for that site. After you posted that link, I checked their discussion forum. There a person had a question on one of the protein powders, that it had much more protein that "normal" powders. I googled and found that was not so, so I registered and posted the nutritional facts for the powder in question.
Now I been banned for "spamming"

I can't vouch for the site. They did provide independent backup for the claims they made in their article, however. There is good and evil in everybody and every discussion board.