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Old 02-Sep-05, 08:25 AM   #1
Zackoz
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Combining cutting and bulking...


Ive decided rather doing a bulking phase and then a cutting phase, Id rather combine the two...I just need a bit of advice...

Im an ectomorph...a hard gainer...and I just wana know how should I limit my cardio so that I dont affect my muscle gains too much? I dont have much body fat however I dont have a 6-pack either lol.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 02-Sep-05, 08:56 AM   #2
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To do both, one has to have enough body fat to support the workouts - when it is burned to replace the missing calories from the restricted diet it is turned slowly into fuel instead of eating all the carbohydrates, proteins, and fats. If you decide to do this, be aware that you can end up catabolizing muscle instead of burning fat - thereby reducing your hard won gains.

I have actually done what you are wanting to do, but I can't promise that it will work for you or anyone else for that matter. It is possible that I was only successful because I had 160lbs of excess fat to use for fuel.

You didn't post your height, weight, BF%, LBM to give us an idea of what you may need to do. These would be helpful.

The way I did it was to go on a very strictly controlled carbohydrate plan - also known as a ketogenic diet. This stabilized my blood sugar, allowed my body to quit producing so much insulin, and allowed me to burn fat. The extra LBM that I built was just a nice side benefit.

I started by cutting my carbohydrate intake to about 20g a day. I didn't count calories, I ate all the protein and fat that I wanted. This meant that I was eating whole eggs, sausage, steaks, hamburgers without buns. I ate two big salads each day. After a few weeks, I started substituting other green veggies for the salads - the high fiber, low glycemic ones. Examples are spinach, asparagus, broccoli, green beans. I ate until satisfied, not "full" or "stuffed", just until no longer hungry. I ate every 4 - 6 hours. If I found myself getting hungry more often or the fat loss stalling, I increased my fat intake. The nice thing about the ketogenic diet is that it seems to be muscle sparing - unlike simple calorie restriction.

After a 4 month bulking cycle, my abs were almost gone again so I went back on it. This time, not quite as strict. I kept supplimenting with protein shakes and kept using dextrose post workout. This put my carbs at around 100g each day. It works for me, I'm still burning fat, just more slowly.

Since from your description, you aren't really overweight. Not being able to see abs doesn't make one obese you know. Look back at the old movies and fight clips from the '70s - see Chuck Norris without a shirt - definitely fit, not a fat man - but no abs - even some jiggles.

If you really want to do it, I would suggest that first you get weighed, keep track of BF% and LBM. Then keep an honest accounting of exactly what you eat and when. After you have done this, start gradually decreasing your carbohydrate intake and increasing fat intake very slightly (preferably healthy natural fats, not trans fats or hydrogenated oils). Keep lifting, do uour cardio. Cardio is very important for cholesterol control, BF control, and is just plain old good for your heart. When you reach the point that BF is going down and LBM is going up - that is where you need to stay.

Some people, me for example - are carb addicts. We have terrible carb cravings. I had to do the strict Atkins style induction (20g complex carbs each day) for a couple of weeks to get past the cravings.

That is just how I would do it because it worked for me. Others may have a better idea that will work for you.

Since you are a hard gainer, you may just have to increase your cardio AND feed your workouts (including your cardio) - eat some protein before workouts, eat some carbohydrate and protein right after them. Perhaps if you simply eat most of your carbs closer to the time of your workouts it will work better for you. Keep the simple carbs immediately post workout with some protein to feed those muscles - and keep it away from going into body fat storage.

Hope you find the way that is going to get you to your goal.
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Last edited by .V.; 02-Sep-05 at 08:59 AM.
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Old 02-Sep-05, 10:20 AM   #3
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I must confess I do at most five miutes of cardio each day I work out which is four times per week. Obviousley split routine. I know that so many people say you should avoid cardio, but it just helps me liven up a bit.
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Old 02-Sep-05, 10:37 AM   #4
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I know it sounds cheesy, but this is really true. The heart is the most important muscle in the body. What good is it to have all your other muscles built up, but not have a healthy heart? Everyone should do at least a little cardio.
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Old 02-Sep-05, 11:00 AM   #5
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A very good point there LiftGirl.
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Old 02-Sep-05, 11:37 AM   #6
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yup, gotta throw my hat in the ring with liftgirl, the heart is the bomb, nobody ever dies from having weak biceps (except the poor bastard hanging from his arms - underhand grip- in the middle of a beam stretching across a 500ft deep canyon).

I went 6 odd weeks without cardio (except ... well you know ... the good kind of cardio) and I gained 6 odd lbs, and probably a pound (OK maybe half a pound) of fat. This is not only gross but unhealthy (it is no good to be winded by a game of weekend hack soccer).

even if you're a pale skinny ectomorph like myself, do cardio (I say HIIT aka intervals or sled dragging - not that I've tried this but it sounds like it works) ... even if it slows your gains ... who cares - you're fit (and on a tangent forget bodybuilding hypertrophy PL all the way how good is being skinny and ripped with a 300lb bench and the ability to outrun/march your drill seargent)

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Old 02-Sep-05, 05:36 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pseudonym
yup, gotta throw my hat in the ring with liftgirl, the heart is the bomb, nobody ever dies from having weak biceps (except the poor bastard hanging from his arms - underhand grip- in the middle of a beam stretching across a 500ft deep canyon).

I went 6 odd weeks without cardio (except ... well you know ... the good kind of cardio) and I gained 6 odd lbs, and probably a pound (OK maybe half a pound) of fat. This is not only gross but unhealthy (it is no good to be winded by a game of weekend hack soccer).

even if you're a pale skinny ectomorph like myself, do cardio (I say HIIT aka intervals or sled dragging - not that I've tried this but it sounds like it works) ... even if it slows your gains ... who cares - you're fit (and on a tangent forget bodybuilding hypertrophy PL all the way how good is being skinny and ripped with a 300lb bench and the ability to outrun/march your drill seargent)

I think with proper nutrition that cardio is not going to cause the kind of massive muscle wasting people seem to fear so much. If you're losing a lot of muscle doing cardio, you're not eating enough/eating right. It shouldn't cut into your gains THAT significantly.
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Old 02-Sep-05, 10:26 PM   #8
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I believe that's an oxymoron.
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Old 02-Sep-05, 10:51 PM   #9
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cardio does NOT cut into muscle gains or i'd be shrivelled up like crazy. every day i'm at the gym, i'm doing something: today i walked about 12 miles - hitch-hiked to north bay then walked across the city from top to bottom twice looking for art supplies. i drag tires with batteries, kids, and other heavy objects on them. i split firewood for a couple of hours at a shot. whatever i can find to do, i'll do it - even run up and down the stairs to my apt in the absence of anything better.

diet is the key: keep it high in protein, low in carbs, and you'll burn fat and gain muscle.
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Old 02-Sep-05, 11:03 PM   #10
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You want to keep at your target heart rate for about 10 minutes or so. Any longer than that and you'll start burning off more calories than you want to. Dont forget that your heart is being worked out also while you're lifting weights.
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Old 02-Sep-05, 11:31 PM   #11
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target heart rate's overrated.


i just go like stink for at least 20 minutes on the tire and other GPP stuff, and keep walking as long as i can otherwise.
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