Cutting V Bulking or Both??

[ibz2004]

Firstly let me start by saying hello. I have been a member for a while, searching and reading regularly but have hardly posted anything until now.

I have lost 28-30pounds in 4 months due to regularly cardio exercise and sports activities. However as a result i have lost alot of muscle mass.
I still feel i want to lose 5-7pounds. Cutting/definition, flatter stomach etc is my major goal / primary objective. Then Bulking up.

i am a 30yr old Male, 6ft, medium-large frame, 182llbs, Waist 32inch
my diet on average:

Meal 1: 2xeggs, 1xToast, Tea
Meal 2: Weetabix, 1xegg
Meal 3: Tuna Sandwhich x2, Orange Juice
Meal 4: 1 x apple, 1xbanana, Muller Rice
WORKOUT
Meal 5: Pasta

My workout is currently
3days Cardio - 80mins per session and 2days Weights - Max 10reps

Figured i better ask some experienced people on here because after reading loads on this forum i have realised that the amount of cardio i was doing i was losing muscle as well as fat.

Before bulking (a secondary objective) shall i simply first focus on fat loss & cutting? I have read that it is difficult to Lose Fat and Gain Muscle mass at once and that it is best to do one first. Any help on diet & workout plan will be much appreciated.

[minime]

Hi Ibz and welcome to DF!

My suggestions for you:

1. lifting 3-4x per week instead of 2x

2. get a good lifting program (I don't know what your current is)

3. start logging your food (choices and portions) in a log like www.fitday.com to find out how many calories/protein/carb/fat you are eating per day. It is annoying at first but once you get used to it, it is easy

4. switch up your cardio, instead of long slow sessions, try sprints/intervals

[ibz2004]

Originally Posted by minime

Hi Ibz and welcome to DF!

My suggestions for you:

1. lifting 3-4x per week instead of 2x

2. get a good lifting program (I don't know what your current is)

3. start logging your food (choices and portions) in a log like www.fitday.com to find out how many calories/protein/carb/fat you are eating per day. It is annoying at first but once you get used to it, it is easy

4. switch up your cardio, instead of long slow sessions, try sprints/intervals

Hey minime thanks for the reply. I will begin logging my good.

When you suggest the interval training do you think i should apply this to treadmill, bike and cross trainer. Ideally should i not be doing anymore than a 60min session? I guess these are broad/generic questions but im now quite conscious about losing anymore muscle mass.

[minime]

hey ibz, no you would not be doing interval training for 60 minutes, it would be more like a 20 minute endeavor.

whatever your machine of choice is, do a 5 minute light warmup.

Then for 1 minute, go 'hard' this may mean running/biking/rowing very fast, your heart rate should get high. then slow it down, for one minute of recovery. If after ten sessions of this (20 minutes) you feel you can continue for another 40minutes, then you simply didn't go hard enough!!

Try it

[ibz2004]

Originally Posted by minime

it would be more like a 20 minute endeavor

i have read a little about high intensity training. I know its all about the quality of the workout but will a 20min HIT session be enough? im used to doing atleast an hour of any type of workout wherever i am. Do you advise me to mix a regular cadio exercise with a hight-intenstive exercise?

[minime]

you can still do an hour or more at the gym, lift weights followed by 20 minutes of cardio.

really, doing 60-80 minutes of slow cardio several times per week while in a caloric deficit is going to get you nowhere.

[ibz2004]

Originally Posted by minime

really, doing 60-80 minutes of slow cardio several times per week while in a caloric deficit is going to get you nowhere.

What is the thinking behind doing cardio after doing weights? What about doing it before weight-training?

I have read up alot on this forum and the general consencus is that HIIT is great for ridding oneself of bodyfat. A session of no more than 20mins should be enough. I feel this might suit someone like me trying to lose only a few pounds

So this philosophy of a lower-intensity endurance cardio (60min-80min) which i thought was standard at the gym is for those who just want to lose alot of weight not caring about muslce loss??

[LiftGirl]

Originally Posted by ibz2004

Meal 1: 2xeggs, 1xToast, Tea
Meal 2: Weetabix, 1xegg
Meal 3: Tuna Sandwhich x2, Orange Juice
Meal 4: 1 x apple, 1xbanana, Muller Rice
WORKOUT
Meal 5: Pasta

My workout is currently
3days Cardio - 80mins per session and 2days Weights - Max 10reps

More veggies! But if you've read much on here at all, you knew I'd say that.

Personally, I think 80 minutes is really too much. If you want to keep doing long sessions, at least try HIIT 20 minutes twice a week.

Can you give us more detail about your lifting plan? A good lifting routine is the secret to preserving muscle mass while trying to cut fat.

[LiftGirl]

Originally Posted by ibz2004

Meal 1: 2xeggs, 1xToast, Tea
Meal 2: Weetabix, 1xegg
Meal 3: Tuna Sandwhich x2, Orange Juice
Meal 4: 1 x apple, 1xbanana, Muller Rice
WORKOUT
Meal 5: Pasta

My workout is currently
3days Cardio - 80mins per session and 2days Weights - Max 10reps

More veggies! But if you've read much on here at all, you knew I'd say that.

Personally, I think 80 minutes is really too much. If you want to keep doing long sessions, at least try HIIT 20 minutes twice a week.

Can you give us more detail about your lifting plan? A good lifting routine is the secret to preserving muscle mass and keep your metabolism high while trying to cut fat.

[ibz2004]

Originally Posted by LiftGirl

More veggies! But if you've read much on here at all, you knew I'd say that.

Personally, I think 80 minutes is really too much. If you want to keep doing long sessions, at least try HIIT 20 minutes twice a week.

Can you give us more detail about your lifting plan? A good lifting routine is the secret to preserving muscle mass and keep your metabolism high while trying to cut fat.

Hi liftgirl and thanks for the reply. Im one of those who enjoy the 30min run or the 90min Soccer game etc but at the same time i understand i need to do different things to attain different goals.

My current weight-training plan:
3days per week
2 or 3 muscle groups per session.
Usually 4 sets each at maximum 10reps

Honestly speaking there is alot of information to take in from all angles! At the moment i have begun to log my food on Minime's advice. I have read everything i need to know on cardio and it is nothing i havent done before but i will be ensuring i sort out a decent routine for myself.

[ibz2004]

Originally Posted by ibz2004

Cutting/definition, flatter stomach etc is my major goal / primary objective. Then Bulking up.

Meal 1: 2xeggs, 1xToast, Tea
Meal 2: Weetabix, 1xegg
Meal 3: Tuna Sandwhich x2, Orange Juice
Meal 4: 1 x apple, 1xbanana, Muller Rice
WORKOUT
Meal 5: Pasta

after looking at fitday.com i can see that i do not have enough protein in my diet and way too much carbs. Protein 17%, Carbs 64% average 1900 calories. Im thinking of incorporating chicken into my diet as another source of protein. Am i ok in assuming i should be trying out protein shakes?

[Lady C]

Shakes are not necessary. They are more easy or convenient way of getting a low fat, low carb protein source.

Originally Posted by ibz2004

What is the thinking behind doing cardio after doing weights? What about doing it before weight-training?

Theroy is that cardio depletes your muscle glycogen BEFORE it will work on the fat stores. Weight lifting needs glycogen and is hard to convert fat stores to make glycogen to perform; it is an anerobic activity. Cardio, aerobic exercise, can convert fat to glycogen fast enough. If you deplete glycogen in cardio before lifting then you will not get the best performance from your muscles. Since fat loss is your goal save the cardio when you need to burn fat and the weight training for building/maintaining muscles i.e. weights first, cardio last.

Hard core people do cardio and weights on different days.

[westside24]

dude... you are eating like 50 grams of protien a day according to that little example day of eating.... not good. whether you are trying to gain or loose wieght you should at least increase your protien intake to somewhere around 100 grms a day, split up over 5-6 meals, is roughly 20gms a meal... without protien you will loose muscle, instead of fat.

[ibz2004]

Originally Posted by westside24

dude... you are eating like 50 grams of protien a day according to that little example day of eating.... not good. whether you are trying to gain or loose wieght you should at least increase your protien intake to somewhere around 100 grms a day, split up over 5-6 meals, is roughly 20gms a meal... without protien you will loose muscle, instead of fat.

Hey westside. Yeh you are totally right. I had no idea my eating habits were way off the mark. Well since this post i have been gradually sorting my Diet out. Incorporated more protein ie Fish & Nuts etc. Still getting there but il keep on going!

I had been doing alot of cardio with little focus on the diet except ensuring i kept sugars and fat at low levels. As a result i have lost muscle as well as fat.

[westside24]

Originally Posted by ibz2004

Still getting there but il keep on going!

well you made the attempt, thats what counts, now you just gotta make adjustments... it happens to all of us. well not that exact problem but yea.

I take it your vegetarian... is dairy out for you or no? plenty of whole milk and cottage cheese, yogurt... also beans