How you see yourself, and how others see you

[Pelon]

Not being satisfied with your appearance or performance is a key motivator for someone living a fit lifestyle. I think it is healthy for most, but it can also become an obsession. Some signs that you have a problem include missing important life events because of working out ("sorry man, I can't come to your wedding because Saturday is my leg day."), turning to illegal substances in an effort to improve, and constant feelings of inferiority.

[.V.]

Originally Posted by Pelon

("sorry man, I can't come to your wedding because Saturday is my leg day.")

Missing someone else's wedding for leg day is OK. However, missing your own for anything other than back day is simply inexcusable.

[maverick]

Luckily my wedding falls on a rest day.

[Todd]

Originally Posted by Zackoz

Im having a small day...in the sense I just feel really small and puny...Monday and yesterday I had crap workouts....not disasterrous but nothing great...and I just feel really pissed off. Something I hate is I cant ever imagine myself being satisfied with my build. And the crazy thing is Ive made a LOT of progress in the last year. This time last year I was getting complliments on my build, dont get me wrong, Im not huge, but if Im honest, I guess I have a good body. Now, a year on, I know Im bigger, I know this from my weight, from measuring my arms, from the heavier weights Im pushing etc...but I look in the mirror, and I just always think "NOT BIG ENOUGH!!". People think Im crazy, Im always gettin the comments; "you have a great body, why do u wanna get bigger?", even though compared to others Im tiny lol. It just sometimes wish I could see myself as others see me, instead of scrutenizing myself every time I look in the mirror. Im making it sound like an obsession lol, Im not that bad yet, its just today really...anyway...just needed to vent...

You just need to learn to be content with your current progress thus far, and know that it is ok to always want more. And if it's an obsession, that is ok too. I am obsessed...and I think most great bodybuilders, or those in the making would say the same if being honest. A true champion IS obsessed. Not just passionate, but outright obsessed! It's ok to always want more, but you have to also be ok with what you do currently have....don't settle, but be ok with it, and use what you have achieved to want more. Get my drift?

[Zackoz]

I know...I just wish I could see myself from an un-biased perspective for once!

[lift2befit]

I think that when you finally decide that your fit enough, your probably ready to quit. Dont ever quit giving it 110%, ( DONT LET THE BAR DROP)

[.V.]

Originally Posted by Zackoz

I know...I just wish I could see myself from an un-biased perspective for once!

Use a camera for that. The mirror lies, the brain lies, the eyes lie. Family wants to be encouraging, so they lie. The camera - it doesn't lie. That's how I can be honest with myself about progress or lack of it - I use a camera.

[Vas85]

I second Jasters words, i'm in at 220lb for 6ft2 and with 18.5inch arms i still feel sometimes that i'm small and i started at 150lb 3.5yrs ago, its just all in the mind.

Welch's comments are true aswell, if you are satisfied then thats when you just give up, there is no such thing as 'maintenance training' it's either going all out to build your body or nothing.

And guys not to sound like a complete air head but believe it or not it is this same reason I thought of this "Point of reference" theory.. thats what I call it, may be new may not be, its just something I have come to realise.

Think about it.. people that don't bodybuild, see you and think 'omg you are huge' because their point of reference is a normal male that's never lifted a weight, wormy body n stuff.... but in your mind you get point of references from say bodybuilders, other people you aspire to and thats why you may feel small, not becuase you are, but your point of reference you have between yourself, and that of someone else is completely different.

I know if I watch say Pumping Iron, or any IFBB pro training, i'll instantly feel small becuase point of reference changes, it's all relative to what you are comparing yourself.

So when you say you feel small or puny, think about what that point of reference is to, if its to a IFBB pro, then you know they are on hardcore juice, so feel better.

I dno guys i just think all of our psychological thoughts about whether you feel small/puny n all that that you think makes you dissatisfied at times, is becuase of a point of reference and this I think can apply to not just how you feel about your looks but almost anything....

Enough of my rambling

(edit, just saw after reading the page 2 posts, as i just quickly replied from reading first page, that Jallen also picked up on the Comparisons... which would be the point of reference)

[Jarrod]

Originally Posted by Vas85

And guys not to sound like a complete air head but believe it or not it is this same reason I thought of this "Point of reference" theory.. thats what I call it, may be new may not be, its just something I have come to realise.

Think about it.. people that don't bodybuild, see you and think 'omg you are huge' because their point of reference is a normal male that's never lifted a weight, wormy body n stuff.... but in your mind you get point of references from say bodybuilders, other people you aspire to and thats why you may feel small, not becuase you are, but your point of reference you have between yourself, and that of someone else is completely different.

I know if I watch say Pumping Iron, or any IFBB pro training, i'll instantly feel small becuase point of reference changes, it's all relative to what you are comparing yourself.

Excellent point. I'm just about to get done with Speech Class and learned all about Point of Reference, but never thought about using it.

[Dan C]

Originally Posted by Todd

You just need to learn to be content with your current progress thus far, and know that it is ok to always want more. And if it's an obsession, that is ok too. I am obsessed...and I think most great bodybuilders, or those in the making would say the same if being honest. A true champion IS obsessed. Not just passionate, but outright obsessed! It's ok to always want more, but you have to also be ok with what you do currently have....don't settle, but be ok with it, and use what you have achieved to want more. Get my drift?

I had to comment on this, not so much that I don't agree but there's something I wanted to point out here that ties into what both Brat and Maverick were saying, as well as the original poster.

Obsession - a persistent disturbing preoccupation with an often unreasonable idea or feeling; broadly : compelling motivation (taken from Webster's online)

Is it OK to be obsessed, is the question.

I used to bodybuild, meaning my goals were focused on asthetics rather than what I could lift. Fortunately, somewhere along the line I became comfortable, or satisified, with the way my body looked and turned my sights towards gaining strength. I say "fortunately", because I don't believe it's healthy to be obsessed over the way you look. I'm not saying it can't be healthy but it's a slippery slope at best. Picture the person that has to look in every mirror they walk past; the guy that sucks in his stomach and puffs his chest out; the woman with fake boobs, fake hair, fake nails and enough make-up to outfit a clown.

Who are you training for? Where do you draw the line?

I don't think it's good to be obsessed over strength either. The word obsessed has a negative overtone that usually lends to problematic behavior. As a friend of mine says, part of strength training is incorporating strength into your life. To live strong. Without getting too philosophical, there's a deeper fulfillment here.

[luke.w]

I sometimes skim through my old "flex" mags (sometimes for a laugh, but sometimes because I'll reconize a "strength athlete" in one, that I had no clue about when I was really into those mags" I saw a "ask mr.O" section with Ronnie don't remember the question, but one thing I remember that was writin was "if your even still a high intermedite bodybuilder, and your obsessed with winning the mr. O then I'd hate to be your family,freinds,co-workers, someting to that piont of obsession, cause obviously, your life will cause you and them problems with that type of obsession, and bodybuilding contains the highest amount. one of the few only "flex" articles that made me "think".

this wasn't in the article but that much obsession, that much sacrifice, for what? to still only place 20-24 and to still be an am.???? I'm only asking about it here, is all?

[Vas85]

Originally Posted by Dan C

Is it OK to be obsessed, is the question.

...

Who are you training for? Where do you draw the line?

I don't think it's good to be obsessed over strength either. The word obsessed has a negative overtone that usually lends to problematic behavior. As a friend of mine says, part of strength training is incorporating strength into your life. To live strong. Without getting too philosophical, there's a deeper fulfillment here.

Obsessed can be another word for the Dedicated, dedication to something.

Who are you training for? yourself.. naturally.
I don't know if you draw the line, the human mind is somehing that always seeks improving upon in many ways.

If you ask questions like that, then that leads to the point of 'why are you alive?' 'what are you doing on this planet?'

Some people smoke and drink, but why? We are all human and everyone is different.

To be that dedicated is an awesome drive, and huge motivation the individual must have.

It's all about fulfillment of needs and desires, I for example like fast cars, and driving them, why do i do it? where do i draw the line?

It's all something that makes you more content with your life, no matter what the hobby / passion may be.

I'm not defending nobody, but obsession with certain things aren't detrimental to your health within reason, as opposed to other 'obsessions' such as Anorexia, but they are two completely different extremes.

[Dan C]

Originally Posted by Vas85

Obsessed can be another word for the Dedicated, dedication to something.

Dedication and obsession are not the same. Being dedicated is an admirable trait, you cannot say that for the obsessed.

Who are you training for? yourself.. naturally.
I don't know if you draw the line, the human mind is somehing that always seeks improving upon in many ways.

At some point, everyone who trains is doing it for themselves. But if you're training for looks, is there a point where you're no longer doing it for yourself? How often does a person actually look at themselves?

I'm not talking about the casual exerciser who wants to lose weight, put a little muscle on and shed that "chubby boy" image of themselves. I'm talking about the "bigger, bigger, bigger" mindset and what makes those people want to continuously grow bigger. If it's to impress and/or intimidate people than I say you're no longer training for yourself.

This is what I meant by "where do you draw the line"? I honestly don't know.

If you ask questions like that, then that leads to the point of 'why are you alive?' 'what are you doing on this planet?'

Like I said, not to get too philosophical, but sometimes these questions need to be asked to gain a better perspective of ourselves.

It's all about fulfillment of needs and desires...

It's all something that makes you more content with your life...

I'm not defending nobody, but obsession with certain things aren't detrimental to your health within reason, as opposed to other 'obsessions' such as Anorexia, but they are two completely different extremes.

What need or desire does becoming physically bigger serve? And is it the best answer to becoming more content with your life?

I don't know.

But I do know your Anorexia example is not necessarily a different extreme, it's just on the other end of the spectrum and is the exact condition I'm talking about. It's called Bigorexia. The bodybuilder who always sees himself as "too small" [and develops problematic behaviours because of it] is no better off than the gymnast who always herself as "too big" [and develops problematic behaviours because of it].

[maverick]

Originally Posted by Dan C

At some point, everyone who trains is doing it for themselves. But if you're training for looks, is there a point where you're no longer doing it for yourself? How often does a person actually look at themselves?

I'm not talking about the casual exerciser who wants to lose weight, put a little muscle on and shed that "chubby boy" image of themselves. I'm talking about the "bigger, bigger, bigger" mindset and what makes those people want to continuously grow bigger. If it's to impress and/or intimidate people than I say you're no longer training for yourself.

This is what I meant by "where do you draw the line"? I honestly don't know.

I see what you're saying, but I kinda disagree. Basically, I see someone wanting to get bigger having the same mindset as someone wanting to get stronger. You want to push your limits, you want to surprise yourself, you want that wonderful feeling of hitting a PR (whether its a X-plate squat or hitting X pounds in bodyweight for the first time). Yes, in most cases strength training has greater applicability to real life. Lets be real though, to gain strength necessary for our daily lives, are all the things we go through in the gym really necessary?

Originally Posted by Dan C

What need or desire does becoming physically bigger serve? And is it the best answer to becoming more content with your life?

I don't know.

But I do know your Anorexia example is not necessarily a different extreme, it's just on the other end of the spectrum and is the exact condition I'm talking about. It's called Bigorexia. The bodybuilder who always sees himself as "too small" [and develops problematic behaviours because of it] is no better off than the gymnast who always herself as "too big" [and develops problematic behaviours because of it].

I agree here. When I first started out, I was limiting my social life to almost nothing and depriving myself of any guilty pleasures I had in the pursuit of my ideal physique. "No babe, I don't want to go for a walk with you cause I did legs today" thinking the excess effort could potentially reverse the day's work. I finally realized that its a game of chess, not checkers, and that it will come. There's no reason to make the next X years miserable while I try to reach my ideal body. I've relaxed my stringent behaviours in terms of diet, sleep, workout freqency, and I am MUCH happier for it.

[lift2befit]

I guess it all depends on what you feel is right. I used to train in the gym for 2 to 3 hours a day. Now I'm working out 1 1/2 a day, and I'm fine with it. I still look good, still making good gains, just want to do more than lift weights. I think I worked out so long and hard for reasons of being small in school. My brother was the big football player, and I was his little brother. I got tired of that when I got out of school. Now I'm the big brother, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that sometimes you can let your image in the mirror take over your life. "Always give 110%, dont let the bar drop.: