HST - 2nd time around

[.V.]

Planning 2nd HST cycle. I'm about 6 weeks away from that but do have a few questions that weren't really addressed at the HST site. I'd like input from anyone who's done this for multiple runs.

Right now I'm doing this:
Squat, Leg extension, good morning, calf raise, deadlift, Row, Pullup, bench press, overhead press, rear delt row, shrug, curl, skull crusher, cable crunch.

3 sets of...wherever I'm at in the routine on that day.

When it's over, I'll likely repeat it at least once before moving on to something more strength oriented. I really like getting to work this hard and NOT get injured...of course I've not made it to the 5's or 2's yet.

First Question
Since it's only 3 days a week do I need to take a week off between HST cycles?

Second Question
How did you determine your weights before your 2nd go at it? Did you just take each workout from the previous time and add 5 or 10 lbs to the max sets and work back from there (like a goal) or did you re-test your abilities between each time to know where to start at?

Third Question
This workout is pretty long especially for someone who's primarily done the 45 minute HIT max OT workouts for a long time.

Would shortening it up a bit by dropping some of the accessory work be a good idea for next time.
Something like this - squat, bench, deadlift, row, overhead press, pullup, crunch. This would still give a full body workout in about 1/2 the time, but without the direct rear delt or arm work. I don't know if this is enough for the hamstrings though without the direct "ham only" work. The way I squat hits them pretty good lately though as I get better at it and learn how to use them more effectively (another plus from combining Dave's squat lessons with the lighter/higher volume approach of HST - more practice without being overloaded).

Opinions/answers/suggestions appreciated. No rush though - I'm doing what I'm currently on for the next 6 weeks anyway.

Thanks.

[Maxgain]

1. Take the week off its very important in the growing process

2. you take your new maxes on the 5 reps from the last 2 weeks and comparing with the old ones can adjust the higher reps accordingly or using an online calendar or spen one workout maxing on the high reps.

3. I was always finished in 45 mins never more than 14 sets so adjust accordingly

First Question
Since it's only 3 days a week do I need to take a week off between HST cycles?
Yes. The rest still gives your body time to heal and recover. Even though you are only working 3 days, the last part of they cycle is the toughest/heaviest.

Second Question
How did you determine your weights before your 2nd go at it? Did you just take each workout from the previous time and add 5 or 10 lbs to the max sets and work back from there (like a goal) or did you re-test your abilities between each time to know where to start at?
I just added 5 to 10 pounds on to my where I started my previous cycle. Maybe I understood it wrong from the website.

Third Question
This workout is pretty long especially for someone who's primarily done the 45 minute HIT max OT workouts for a long time. Would shortening it up a bit by dropping some of the accessory work be a good idea for next time.
I only do 2 sets for the big lifts rather than the 3 you are using. The studies cited on the site say that one set is just as effective as 3. I did notice the sample they gave was in conflict with the study, but I understood it that they were giving a nod to the fact that most people are comfortable with 3 sets.

Something like this - squat, bench, deadlift, row, overhead press, pullup, crunch. This would still give a full body workout in about 1/2 the time, but without the direct rear delt or arm work.
I don't do any direct rear delt work right now and unless it is a weakness in your physique I wouldn't worry about it. I do arm work, but only one set.

I don't know if this is enough for the hamstrings though without the direct "ham only" work. The way I squat hits them pretty good lately though as I get better at it and learn how to use them more effectively (another plus from combining Dave's squat lessons with the lighter/higher volume approach of HST - more practice without being overloaded).
You could bag the deads and change up to SLDL's instead.

I am very interested in what others who have used HST have to say in regards to your questions.

[.V.]

Thanks Ironman. About the sets - I thought I understood it to say that 2 sets was sufficient, but the more the better if you are able to recover from it. This is a concern for me since my recovery has been so bad for so long. Now that I know the reason for my poor recovery now and it's being properly medically addressed I wanted to give 3 a shot. I'm not completely "normal" feeling yet. The doc said that would take about a month. However, I'm feeling the best I've felt in years...everything seems to be working better than it has for a while, recovery included.

I did make a typo - on the deadlift I'm only doing 2 sets.

I too am interested in other's answers to these questions. In the end we each have to decide what to do on our own, but the more input based on personal experience we get, the better decision we can make for ourselves.

[Maxgain]

Originally Posted by a_welch503

Thanks Ironman. About the sets - I thought I understood it to say that 2 sets was sufficient, but the more the better if you are able to recover from it. This is a concern for me since my recovery has been so bad for so long..

No 2 proper sets works the muscle maximally. 3 sets just burns more calories and stresses the nervous sytem. You are actually hindering the programme s you are risking your NS which may not be recovered for the next training session

Originally Posted by a_welch503

Now that I know the reason for my poor recovery now and it's being properly medically addressed.

Is this treatment for MS or have you finally gone replacement therapy?

Maxgain

[.V.]

Originally Posted by Maxgain

No 2 proper sets works the muscle maximally. 3 sets just burns more calories and stresses the nervous sytem. You are actually hindering the programme s you are risking your NS which may not be recovered for the next training session

The site explained that with TRT one can do more sets and get more benefit.

Originally Posted by Maxgain

Is this treatment for MS or have you finally gone replacement therapy?

Both. Finally agreed to go with the TRT therapy, I'm currently having to take it at the doc's office, injections for now - insurance issues. They'll pay for some treatment and not for others. Fourth week begins tomorrow. Not really feeling like I used to yet, but better...most likely just from eating a lot more since the meds haven't had time to start working yet.

MS therapy too. I don't like it, but there really is no choice at this point. I've exceeded my lifetime maximum dosage on decadron and solu-medrol so just living my life as if I don't have it and getting treatment when an attack happens is no longer an option. I have to prevent them now. Since things changed from RRMS to SPMS I don't really recover from the damage anymore so I just have to do my best to keep it from happening. My last MRI looked like a brain shaped photo of a slice of swiss cheese from the demylenated areas that didn't recover. I guess this explains part of why the sudden failure of some of my endocrinological functions at a rather early age.

No real problem though, I'm physically more able now than I've ever been in my life. I've learned to ignore the neuogenic pain so that it's almost like it isn't even there - without pain medication. Doc calls it biofeedback - I don't know anything about that, I just calling it learning to live with it and getting used to it.

Best of all - no SI pain for the longest time so far. That makes me really .

Oh yeah, I almost forgot...my thyroid seems to be fine according to the most recent set of lab work. The confusing mix of hypo and hyper thyroid symptoms that made no sense to me at all are gone. Another problem from not eating enough??

[Maxgain]

Originally Posted by a_welch503

The site explained that with TRT one can do more sets and get more benefit.

I dont see how your trt is only to put you at a good physiological range level ie what any young person should be naturally. 2 sets is still best. You will now be able to train and get deserved results with the dedication you put in but this has just made you "normal" not a superman though you may feel like it after a while compared to before. More is still less it is not as though you are on a steroid cycle where i know the site says you can train more then. You are now even with the rest of the population and not able to handle more.
Also you dont know how much effect your current treatment is having -I would be interested if you would post it- everyone responds differently and lab tests will be needed to see before putting extra stresses on especially if you are not feeling it yet ie increased energy strength wellbeing libido morning errections etc.

Good news on the thyroid hope it stays that way and hopefully you will be able to control the MS with little or no inconvenience.

Maxgain

[.V.]

Yeah, normal for a healthy male is the goal. Normal would actually feel like superman to me. We won't be getting any labs taken until after the 4th week to see if adjustments are needed. Then again in 6 months. After that - yearly.

I still don't think 3 sets is that much volume, I used to work out with much higher volume when I was young and got great results. Doing full body, 3 straight sets of 12-20 reps immediately following 40 minutes of cardio.

Then as I got older, I stopped, got fatter and lazier, then even fatter and even lazier until I had to change things 3 years ago.

I must have misread on the HST site, I understood it to mean that a healthy young male could handle 3 sets or an older male on TRT could handle 3 sets. I didn't see any mention of steroids on the site. Maybe I should learn to read between the lines better or stop skipping the small fonts.

Thanks for the heads up, I'll watch very closely for signs of overtraining in case I need to cut back.

However, so far so good - I'm feeling better, no pain, sore as hell the day of a workout, but no DOMS the next day.

I did take some measurements today - wasn't going to 'till the end, but I like them so far. I'll look up the beginning ones and post both sets in my journal later.

Fine print from the HST web site concerning volume:

HST suggests that you limit the number of sets per exercise per workout to 1 or 2. This is based on "some" evidence that sets beyond the first "effective" set do little more than burn calories..... Some may question the validity of HST not utilizing more than 1 or 2 sets per exercise. The number of sets is set low to accommodate the frequency necessary to create an effective and consistent environment to stimulate hypertrophy. Over the course of a week, the volume isn't that different from standard splits (e.g. chest should tri, back bi, legs).

Originally Posted by a_welch503

I understood it to mean that a healthy young male could handle 3 sets or an older male on TRT could handle 3 sets.

I guess my only question is - are you a normal, healthy male on HRT? I love high volume Andy, but I simply can't do it anymore. Even if I was on HRT I'm not sure I would give into the higher volume. Time is too valuable for me to do extra work simply to make me feel good. If I can get the same from less then you bet I'm going to go for it.

[etothepii]

Man, I was typing a long response, and then accidentally refreshed the screen, losing it all!!!

Here's the short version -- from my understanding and admittedly brief experience:

1. Nine to 14 days of SD is mandatory.
2. However long your cycle lasts (and feel free to extend the post 5's phase as many weeks as you can) spend a couple more workouts testing your 15 and 10 RMs. Your 5 RMs should be known to you, but you can test those too, if you want.
3. The length depends on your choice of exercises and sets. From looking at your journal, you seem to be an absoulute workhorse. You must have a ton of energy and drive! Really, you could take your workout down to 6 - 10 exercises, and follow the 1x15, 2x10, 3x5 scheme.

In my third cycle, I'm doing 8 - 9 exercises. I'm doing 2x15 with a couple exercises, and I will do 3x10, and perhaps 20 to 25 max-stim reps in the 5s with my arm isos. But I will stick to the 1x15, 2x10, 3x5 scheme overall.

Also, I find that I can superset in the first week of each phase without too much problem. It's too tough for me with the heavier weights, though.

[.V.]

Energy? Drive? Nope, just stubborn enough to stick with it. Besides on my workout days that I'm not on call - I have nothing else to do anyway - it's pretty cool having a full time job that only requires me to actually work seven days a month and be on call seven. I rest as long as needed between sets. I don't superset - for me, that leads to early fatigue and injury.

Thanks for the tips on planning the next time around. I will be shortening it up some, definitely doing less direct arm work - maybe following the advice from one of the articles by the program designer about splitting each workout day into two parts - an am and a pm workout. Something like a morning basic 5 workout with squat, bench, row, deadlift, overhead press. Then accessory work in the evening. Or perhaps just the basic 5 workout with no accessory work. I don't know though - depends on how things go when I start adding cardio back in.

[etothepii]

Did you happen to read the "Pimp my HST" e-book? Lots of great stuff in there!!

[.V.]

Originally Posted by etothepii

Did you happen to read the "Pimp my HST" e-book? Lots of great stuff in there!!

Nope, never heard of it.