I need to get something off my chest...

[CF-OC_gal]

(I apologise if the tone of this offends anyone)

3N's and others, if your 18 year olds are still depending on you to do the basics in life then I have no sympathy. Cut the apron strings you are only enabling them. Teach them to be independant - that's tough love but it is admirable in this society. I watched my 17 year old bitch and complain that I was late picking up him from his math tutor because I had a truncated workout at the gym to be there when I was. Instead of apologizing to him like he expected, I told him to stop being a pussy (well I didn't say that word) and do things for himself because I am not going to be around to cook and taxi for him as of next year. There's food in the fridge and he knows where the utensils are. He's got legs and bike. If he needs a light then I'll buy him one. If anything he should have gone home instead of waiting for me then I would be apologizing to him not ragging on him.

The root of this "laziness" is lack of taking responsibiliy for ones health! This is where it starts - spoonfeeding and overprotecting our kids. From what? The agony of learning independance?

I only wish my parents had not done so much for me. I wish I had had it as tough or tougher than they did, which was not easy.

<end of rant>

I wish that heathcare costs/premiums would drop as you become more consistent with workouts. Staying out of hospitals and doctor's offices are my incentive to stay fit.

[CF-OC_gal]

Originally Posted by ajarvis

I I want a snack, and it's cheaper to buy chips or a chocolate bar, than apples, oranges, peaches etc.

Is it really cheaper when you add in the hidden future cost of joining a gym or the time take to run you ass off (literally)?

Eating junk food cannot be compared to nutritious food. If I eat chips I eat the expensive ones and when I eat chocolate it is either higher protein chocolate bars or chocoate almonds (not cheap). Dollar for dollar it is about the same as a piece of fruit. Caloriewise there is no comparison. Fruit is way less calories.

[threenorns]

Originally Posted by Brat

(I apologise if the tone of this offends anyone)

3N's and others, if your 18 year olds are still depending on you to do the basics in life then I have no sympathy. Cut the apron strings you are only enabling them. Teach them to be independant - that's tough love but it is admirable in this society. I watched my 17 year old bitch and complain that I was late picking up him from his math tutor because I had a truncated workout at the gym to be there when I was. Instead of apologizing to him like he expected, I told him to stop being a pussy (well I didn't say that word) and do things for himself because I am not going to be around to cook and taxi for him as of next year. There's food in the fridge and he knows where the utensils are. He's got legs and bike. If he needs a light then I'll buy him one. If anything he should have gone home instead of waiting for me then I would be apologizing to him not ragging on him.

The root of this "laziness" is lack of taking responsibiliy for ones health! This is where it starts - spoonfeeding and overprotecting our kids. From what? The agony of learning independance?

I only wish my parents had not done so much for me. I wish I had had it as tough or tougher than they did, which was not easy.

<end of rant>

I wish that heathcare costs/premiums would drop as you become more consistent with workouts. Staying out of hospitals and doctor's offices are my incentive to stay fit.

lol - the 18 yr old isn't mine: i'm fixing someone else's damage. he's quite helpless around the house - we're talking staring helplessly at the sink saying "there's no clean dishes...." (at which point i give him The Look and say "but there ARE dishes. they're just not clean. what would be the logical thing to do?"

i bring him shopping with me and he's "let's get ice cream!" and i'm "nope, i don't buy that stuff." "but whyyyyyyy?" "because it's $4 for a gallon tub of crap that has no nutrition whatsoever and will last about a day and a half when i can spend just a bit more and get a gallon of milk that will last a couple of days." i sent him to get four loaves of bread and he came back with Wonder Bread. i told him to take it back and get the store brand whole wheat instead because it was healthier and cheaper. he came back with four loaves of white store brand because "i don't like brown bread" - "too bad, i don't like white and i'm paying the bills." i didn't have to tell my girls any of this stuff - they learned as they grew.

my 19 year has been married and out of the house nearly two years, my 16 yr old can cook, clean, shop effectively, do laundry, and save up for desired treats. that has always been my rule: "you will move out on your own ONLY when you are capable of looking after yourself because if you think i'm coming over to clean once a week, you have another think coming."

oh, but *I'm* the abusive parent for "forcing" them to do housework and cleaning starting as soon as they could walk.

[rbuchman]

The money thing is simple economics, what really burns me is the lack of discount on health insurance etc. that I should be entitled to.

And when you think about it we are a gym's worst customers, why we come every day and use lots of plates and use more wieght (i.e. more stress on the equiptment). If everyone came every day they'd only be able to have 200-300 members what they really want are the people who routinely come once or twice a month and hires a personal trainer.

This really bothers me when all the regulars petition for serious equiptment and they say "this place really isn't meant for serious bodybuilders", as every place has said when I and the other regulars request heavy dumbells and thin 100 lbs plates etc. Things that the ideal customer would never use.

[CF-OC_gal]

OK so the 18 yo in question is not yours, but rather your choice .

[threenorns]

Originally Posted by Brat

OK so the 18 yo in question is not yours, but rather your choice .

yep. someone's gotta do something cause kids in this town are going to welfare on a handcart.

[ajarvis]

Originally Posted by Brat

Is it really cheaper when you add in the hidden future cost of joining a gym or the time take to run you ass off (literally)?

Eating junk food cannot be compared to nutritious food. If I eat chips I eat the expensive ones and when I eat chocolate it is either higher protein chocolate bars or chocoate almonds (not cheap). Dollar for dollar it is about the same as a piece of fruit. Caloriewise there is no comparison. Fruit is way less calories.

I agree. I just think it is way too expensive to eat healthy compared to eating bad. We could feed ourselves no problem on kraft dinner, noodle soups, chips, etc. that have no nutritional value, and have lots of money left over. Instead we do our grocery shopping, and we'll spend 150-200 easy on two of us, and out of all that have 1 tub of ice cream, or 1 ice cream cake. But most of that food that I enjoy, the fruits, veggies, yogurt, lunch stuff etc, only lasts for one week. Then I'm waiting til' payday so I can buy more.

[CF-OC_gal]

I just think it is way too expensive to eat healthy compared to eating bad.

I can't even put a price on health. To me it's priceless. There are ways to make the best of a bad situation (low income and shopping)

With a little planning it is possible. Here are some ideas I've heard that people do:

I like to buy 3 lb bags of frozen boneless, skinless chicken breast...I've gotten it on sale for as little as $4.50 a bag and I stock up when it is on sale. Even not on sale, it's usually only about $6.00. I usually cook it all up at one time (time budgeting) with my favorite seasonings and chop it up or re-freeze the cooked chicken. It's more than enough for me to eat off of for a month.

I buy tortillas for $1.20 for 10 and stock up on reduced fat shredded cheese when it's on sale for around $1.50. Combine these with the chicken and some lettuce or other fresh veggies, and I get a quick lunch or snack for only about $0.55. Or, add the chicken to some lettuce and throw on some cheese for a quick salad that costs about $0.55.

I also cook up a 5 quart pan of chili with 1 to 1 1/4 lb of extra lean ground beef (a bit more pricey, but a good investment to me, and if you buy it in bulk when it's on sale, you can freeze the rest), about 4-6 cans of beans, 48 oz of canned tomatoes and seasoning. Since you can stock up on all these things when they are on sale and use them later, I end up with about 16 to 20 1 cup servings that cost around $0.50 to $0.60 a serving.

I don't like to eat frozen fruit plain, but if you throw a serving of that in a blender with 2/3 C skim milk, you get a great smoothie for about $0.40.

Sometimes I cook up 16 oz of spaghetti, add 1 jar of sauce and divide it into 10 separate servings. Then I spread 1 package of reduced fat mozzarella cheese out to cover all 10 servings and make my own frozen dinners that only cost around $0.40 each.

My portions listed above are fairly small because I usually eat 5-6 small meals a day, so I divide my portions likewise. Still, if I eat most of my meals the "thrifty" way, I spend less than $2.00/day on those meals and I can afford to splurge on 1 or 2 other meals for something healthy I love that is not cheap and still wind up spending less than $3.00 to $5.00 a day on food.

and

I changed my eating habits a few years ago I've been spending less. The change was to a low fat, minimal animal protein, (I eat chicken 4 - 5 times a month) , eliminate dairy, eggs and processed food.

I buy canned beans when they are on sale - just to have on hand. But for the most part I buy dry beans, make a large batch and freeze them in smaller portions. Sometimes they are a bit mushy when defrosted - but I still think better than what comes out of a can.

You can buy a lot of beans for what you'd spend on a pound of meat - and the beans go a lot further. I buy the beans, pasta, and rice in the bulk food section of Superstore. I'm not crazy about bulk food departments - but I figure that someone is more likely to stick their hand in the barrel of jube jubes than in the barrel of dried lentils.

Veggies & Fruit - I shop once a week and buy what ever the featured specials are. I will mix frozen & fresh veggies quite often. ie. - stir fry (which I eat a lot - done in a no-stick pan) some frozen veggies and some fresh. Not only saves money - but saves time and gives variety.

I know that fruit can be expensive - but when I think that I paid $1.25 for a peach the other day as a treat - well I'd spend more than that on a pop & chips - so didn't feel badly about it at all. I use that same rationale if I can't wait for a sale on Papaya - it works out to being about the same price as a small containter of Hagen Daz. . . and the Papaya usually takes 2 sittings to finish!

dh eats meat about 4 times a week - just toss a hunk on George Foreman - my veggie dishes are his side dishes. . . .I may just add more beans, lentils or tofu to what I'm eating to get adequate protein. I never tried to 'convert' him to my way of eating - but after 18 yrs together he's learned that it's better all around if he just eats what is on the dinner table. lol

I think soup is very easy to make and also easy on the budget. A great way to use up veggies that are starting to wilt. If I have veggies that are starting to wilt or go mushy I'll clean them, chop them and toss them in the freezer to be used in a future soup.

It does take more work to eat healthier - and some planning (if you plan meals based on the weekly sales) - but well worth it. I really don't understand how it is more expensive - particularly if you are cutting down on animal protein. . . .unless you are buying a lot of prepared foods, deli dishes, or packaged or canned foods.

[threenorns]

true dat - but unfortunately, for too many people, principals have to take a back seat to economic reality.

[ajarvis]

Originally Posted by threenorns

true dat - but unfortunately, for too many people, principals have to take a back seat to economic reality.

Exactly!!!
If I had the money then it wouldn't be a complaint.

[CF-OC_gal]

If I had the money I would have poor health from over indulgence and lack of reason to get up off my ass everyday and do something.

Time management and poor prioritizing is the problem. If you live close to your values you'll do it or at least keep on trying to. I'm not saying it's easy, it's kind of like living by your religion.

[threenorns]

sorry: but if you're on a subsistence level income, you can budget all you want - but ten percent of nothing is still nothing. priorities are different at this level - it's not what you eat, but for how long will you eat.

my wish list if i had the money:


butter instead of margarine
home-made whole grain bread instead of commercial crap
organically-grown fruits and vegetables (lots per day)
fruits and veg year-round instead of only in season (who the heck pays $2.47 for ***celery***!???)
fresh herbs and spices instead of dried
whole-bean coffee instead of instant
beef and chicken and turkey breast instead of low-grade chicken leg quarters
fresh tuna and salmon instead of canned
a LOT more fish
free-range eggs instead of battery farm
sweet potato instead of white ($0.97/lb compared to $1.47 for a 10lb bag)
roast beef instead of ground
extra-virgin cold-pressed olive oil instead of corn oil

and that's just what i can think off the top of my head!

[CF-OC_gal]

I eat most of your preferences on that list and my income level is probably closer to yours than you assume. We have different approaches to the same problem

I buy them when I can and make them last. What I can't afford I skip not substitute. Frozen and canned foods are available all year round and they are cheap so there really is no reason to spend 2.49 on a bunch of celery when a can of green beans is $.79.

My method isn't perfect though. I'm still regretably losing weight even though I'm away from my regular routine because I can't afford the time or the loonies for parking at the gym at the moment.

BTW - eggs are the best value going in the supermarket, even the omega 3 ones only work out to about $.35 each.

[ajarvis]

Everything on your list is pretty much on mine threenorns, only exception is that when we move, I will be baking my own whole wheat bread, but not because it's cheaper, just because I want to.

Brat: some of the things on your list are doable, but alot are not. I have never ever seen a bag of chicken breasts for under 10.00. Also fruit smoothies are not cheap, because fruit is not cheap. Also fruit should not be a "treat", it's a neccessity for good health. I don't know where those people shop, but it's not where I can shop. I have three stores to choose from. Loblaws, sobeys, or No Frills. With no frills being the cheapest, but of the lowest quality.

In an ideal world we would all be able to eat properly, but we don't all have that luxury. I have bills. Those bills have to be paid. I do my very best to eat properly, and I think I do pretty good. The harsh reality however is that I can't afford to eat the same way I do in the first week after grocery shopping as the 2nd. The second week always has less fruits, less veggies, less everything. I can afford to take my lunch to work for 5 or 6 days, but after that I'm waiting on my next paycheque. This includes the fact that my BF hardly eats. He is just starting to eat closer to the way I do - as in more than one meal a day, and healthy food. It is starting to cost us more money. A large portion of our money goes to food. It goes rent food.

[threenorns]

the bottom line is, healthy proper fruits, vegetables, dairy, grains, and meats should be easily affordable for even those on assistance.

the crap like pizza pockets, jamaican meat patties, and vachon cakes should be luxuries and cost more.

why can they not slap a luxury tax on the junk food and use that to subsidize the cost of decent nutrition, kind of like the way the tobacco tax is underwriting the health care system?