Leg (over) extension

[jukka]

'bout a year ago, I was reading some oooold article reprinted in one of the muscle rags, and Franco Columbu told about his leg training and how Joe Weider had given him a tip on leg extensions:

Apparently, Franco had been doing the leg extensions the usual way,
extending and squeezing his quads to just short of locking his knee.

Old Weider instructed him to go further, to extend his knee just a little bit more to get that extra squeeze in.

And Franco did and he saw that it was good.

So I thought, though I train differently myself (HIT style), these technique issues apply to all trainers, so I gave it a try.

And sure enough, reducing the weight a bit, making sure I use slowish rep speed so as not to ram my knee into extended position, and (over)extending my knees really gave my quads a KILLER squeeze when doing leg extensions, and it felt totally amazing. I was thrilled to find this tip for leg training...
well, it was a bout that time I started developing knee problems too.

And I've never had knee problems despite at some point squatting with 300 lbs and despite crappy form I used in leg training when I was younger.

So, what I'm aiming at is the more squeeze the better...but not always,
and NOT with leg extensions!!

[monsta]

leg extension is a silly exercise in my book.. not only does it put heaps of pressure on the knees, but its very much an isolating exercise. Far better to do squat variables or leg press.

[TriplNipl]

Originally Posted by monsta

leg extension is a silly exercise in my book.. not only does it put heaps of pressure on the knees, but its very much an isolating exercise. Far better to do squat variables or leg press.

Man, I hear that all the time in these forums and I just don't get it... I do them at the tail of my leg workout and they really round out the routine. I get that nice little burn, have trouble walking afterwards. They HAVE to be doing something. Bodybuilders have been doing these for decades now. You'd think if they weren't worth their salt, they wouldn't be wasting their time. I'd really like to get a solid answer as to what the benefits are (if there are any) for doing 'em.

[monsta]

Originally Posted by TriplNipl

Man, I hear that all the time in these forums and I just don't get it... I do them at the tail of my leg workout and they really round out the routine. I get that nice little burn, have trouble walking afterwards. They HAVE to be doing something. Bodybuilders have been doing these for decades now. You'd think if they weren't worth their salt, they wouldn't be wasting their time. I'd really like to get a solid answer as to what the benefits are (if there are any) for doing 'em.

yeah, they'll be doin something.. you are working the quads, and their one of the biggest muscle groups in the body. Leg extension are pretty good if ya have hip or ankle probs as well.
The problem starts when the ol male ego kicks in and we throw on too much weight and jerk it up, it has to be smooth, and with leg extensions its VERY easy to overload. I say they're silly because (in my opinion) its much better to do compound exercises, without the risk.

[TommyD]

Why do leg press when you can do the king of all quad exercises: Front Squats?

I do enjoy the leg press machine though... great for a variation on calf raises!

[TriplNipl]

Hey TD.... But by doing front squats, are you getting the same effect as leg extension?

Yeah, doing calves on leg press really nail 'em for me.... I don't know what it is, but I feel that's when/where I work them the best. I usually do them with really heavy weight... 500-600.. maybe that's it.

[TommyD]

Well here's how I look at it...

If you're looking for strength, front squats are definetly your best bet. They strengthen your quads better than any other exercise out there (obviously in close competition with regular squats). It's essentially the same movement as leg extensions, except on a plane that causes you to deal with your body weight as well. Plus it's an open-chain exercise which almost always (IMO) beats out a close-chain exercise.

If you're looking for mass, again front squats really nail your quads and are a great compound movement. If you're looking to hit different muscles of your quads, I'd start with front squats to see what kind of results they give you, then move into more isolatory movements like leg extensions, leg press, and/or hack squats.

When it comes to total weight used, I can use about 180-200 for leg extensions, but for front squats I can use well over 200... so in my head, it just makes sense to use a compound exercise that you can put on a few more plates than the isolatory exercise.

[grambo]

if you want some leg size, do a search for 20 rep squats.

Body Builders dont develop the quad size they have by doing leg extensions, they may use them as an assistance exercise, or as a final burnout, but the bulk of there leg workout revolves around a heavy compound exercise.


by the way tom, leg press and hack squats are compound moves. I realise you said isolatory, but these are simply compound moves for pussy's, nothing more, nothing less.

[TommyD]

When I said "more isolatory" movements, I wasn't refering to open-chain vs. close-chain, I was talking more about, well, how you put it: "moves for pussy's"

[jukka]

Steady dudes, sure, squats reign supreme,
but they tax your upper back too, so to me it makes
sense to move on to hacks or leg presses once youv'e squatted your lower back to oblivion but still have some oomph left in your legs.

As hacks and leg presses don't work your lower back.
Unless, say, with leg presses, you lower the sled so far down that your
flexibility cannot cope with it and your ass gets lifted from the support.
I used to do that and my lower back nearly cramped by the end of
a hard set leg presses. Not recommended...

Or, what I do these days, I hack squat first to pre-exhaust my legs,
then move on to Smith machine squats, and now that my quads
are pre-exhausted, my lower back is not the weak link anymore,
and I can hit the legs as hard as George W. Bush used to hit the bottle.

[grambo]

I've never done smith machine squats, because you have to ruin standard squat form to complete a rep. However, everyone I know has complained of hack squats hurting there back to a higher degree than regular squats, myself included.

[jukka]

Hmm, that's a bit odd, I've never heard of back problems with
hack squats. However, if you bounce and jerk the sled with hacks,
you'll ruin your knees in no time. Big time.

My lower back prevents me from getting deep enough in regular squats,
I cannot get to parallel let alone below parallel without my lower back arching like a mofo.

This, apparently, is mostly due to my arrow-straight lower back,
there's hardly any natural spine curve there to help keep the
back in natural position.
But with Smith squats I can go to parallel and below, that's
pretty much the only reason I do them instead of regular squats.

Tough break but what can you do, you gotta play with the hand you were dealt.

[grambo]

Originally Posted by jukka

Hmm, that's a bit odd, I've never heard of back problems with
hack squats. However, if you bounce and jerk the sled with hacks,
you'll ruin your knees in no time. Big time.

My lower back prevents me from getting deep enough in regular squats,
I cannot get to parallel let alone below parallel without my lower back arching like a mofo.

This, apparently, is mostly due to my arrow-straight lower back,
there's hardly any natural spine curve there to help keep the
back in natural position.
But with Smith squats I can go to parallel and below, that's
pretty much the only reason I do them instead of regular squats.

Tough break but what can you do, you gotta play with the hand you were dealt.

Have you considered getting a weight belt?

[jukka]

Yeah, I have two of them, even,
and they sure give me support,
but they don't prevent my lower back from rounding.
I do hacks and smiths without a belt.

Hamstring flexibility seems to be an issue in squatting with proper form,
but increasing my hams' flexibility does not seem to help.

[monsta]

Originally Posted by jukka

Yeah, I have two of them, even,
and they sure give me support,
but they don't prevent my lower back from rounding.
I do hacks and smiths without a belt.

Hamstring flexibility seems to be an issue in squatting with proper form,
but increasing my hams' flexibility does not seem to help.

ankle flexability plays just as much a part in technique as hamstrings.. its a 3 joint movement.
avoid using a belt till you are comfortable with your form, then only use it on heavier lifts, like 1 rep max's.