Making it grow - a discussion

[.V.]

Just a random thought that may be interesting to discuss.

We keep hearing things like;
"you shouldn't squat more than once a week"
"you shouldn't deadlift more than once a week"
"you shouldn't work the same bodypart twice in a row"

You know all the stuff like that which most of us believe.

However, I'm wondering since the body is such a wonderfully adaptive machine if these things are true or not.

Since I started squatting 3x a week I noticed that when I stick to it like I should, my hip hurts much less and I feel better.

I'm trying to get not only a weight workout EOD now, but also conditioning work the same day with some pretty intense cardio every 4th day.

The conditioning work is going to include sprints, burpees, and walking lunges, some time with the jump rope...etc.

Some would say this is a prescription for overtraining, some will say, "you'll never gain any muscle", some might say, "sure it's fine...do it."

I will be doing it because it fits with my current goals and workout needs and getting big slabs of muscle simply isn't part of that.

I do know though that I gained the most when I was doing HST EOD sleeping a lot and eating enough to support it.

So I just have to wonder...what will happen if someone is sleeping enough, eating enough, and working hard like that 3 out of 4 days, even getting two workouts per day. Think about it. Each workout is going to be an hour at the most. Some cardio sessions may be two or more hours, but mostly workouts will be under 1 hour. There are 23 more hours in each day where activity won't be so heavy or intense.

Discuss...

[tim_mcf]

I don't think there's any reason to only squat once a week, or to not work the same body part on consecutive days, or any of that stuff. As you say, the body is wonderfully adaptive. It will deal with anything you throw at it. Your specific neurological issues may make you more prone to overtraining, so it's extra-important to EAT and to REST; but as a general principle I personally think that whole-body, intense workouts every day are very appropriate, even if you maybe squat two days in a row.

Andy, when I read the title of your thread I thought it was either a discussion about how to grow big and beautiful flowers in your garden, or tips for the endowment-challenged male!

I think the body has an amazing ability to adapt, and provided it is fueled adquately with good food and gets adequate sleep, it will perform amazinginly well, and will tell you loud and clear when you need an unscheduled day of rest.

So let's give it a go and see where it leads you. Superfitness for sure.

[.V.]

Originally Posted by pierini

a discussion about how to grow big and beautiful flowers in your garden, or tips for the endowment-challenged male!

No flowers this year. But if help is needed in the other department, we'd best take it to PM. But, with proper training...

Seriously though, I'm just wanting to hear some civil discussion and see what the others here at DF think. Some of us...I already know what we think but do wish to hear everyone's opinion. Not an argument or preaching of viewpoints...just discussion on a topic that interests me today.

[Big Mike]

it all depends on the person. it might work for some people but not for others. how well a person recovers is what this is dependent on. eventually, your body will adapt, but after how long? how long is a person willing to go without any real significant gains? you have to do what works for you.

I've been a big user of full body for a long time now Andy. I spent too many years doing a body part only once a week and in retrospect - it was mostly a waste of time.

Back when I was a kid I followed a 6 day upper/lower split trying in vain to be like the big boys of the time. Problem was I wasn't juicing and didn't make any progress.

Then when I got older I followed the big boys again and did only one part per week - and didn't grow either. Didn't matter if it was Max OT or another protocol. My body simply did not respond to that type of training.

It is possible to overtrain while doing full body routines by using techniques that crank up the intensity. Things like forced reps, failure training, etc. Too much of that stuff is a perscritption for killing any gains one might have made.

I think you are a smart fella to be squatting three times per week, Andy. You just have to be smart about it.

[trainerty]

I think the more educated a person becomes in anatomy and kinesiology, the more a person will understand. Pretty vague and a bit corny, but I think it's true.

I witness folks who get most of their info through "re-inventing wheels' and muscle mags and gym urban legends....and I witness folks who are further along and have looked into studies and principles...gone to some varied seminars.

I think it's great when a person moves from the muscle-vague mentality to really getting into anatomy and kinesiology. Kinda' breaks down those dogmas pretty quickly.

good topic:

[bodyshop20]

Hello big A, I think all body parts can in my experience be hit twice a week.
But if you keep using the same movement the muscle group will be accustomed to it and grow slower.
But if you rest say the quad for 48hrs and eat accordingly to recover, then i say yes to squatting more than once a wk or hitting any muscle twice in a week

[trainerty]

Actually they looked into this exact topic (the powers that be).
The body does not "adapt" to a movement as much as people would like to think. Since a squat is a free weight "closed chained" movement...no rep is identical. There is always slight adjustment in the amount of fibers recruited and the sequence the fibers are recruited.

The body does however adapt quickly to rep ranges and tempos. So, squats can be successfully down 5x a week and still stimulate neuromuscular system to change. Simply, change rep ranges and tempos. IMO

[.V.]

Good points all of you.

Keep the discussion rolling.

[Rufiedodg]

I’ve tried a lot of different training methods over the last 4 years. Honestly, compared to many progress pics on this forum, I’m not sure I’ve found anything that works well enough to say the method was a success. I do know that the biggest contribution toward finding a good method of training is going through a period of time finding out what doesn’t work.

There is really only two types of training—HIT training and Volume training. Of course most training falls somewhere between the two, each individual body is going to favor one or the other. For example, although I Iike the time and energy HIT allows for aerobic training, the method just doesn’t seem to do much for me. Volume training on the other hand (especially with limited rest between sets) seems to force my muscles to grow. But by doing high volume training, my time dedicated to aerobics really suffer.

And finally, there seems to be a lot of people who dedicate all their time to lifting weights and no time to aerobic activity. These people may look as fit as anyone on the outside, but I know from experience nothing replaces the effect of a high intensity interval session. Intense aerobic training makes a big difference toward how I look, feel, and the condition of my heart.

Everything seems to be a tradeoff

My 2 cents

Dan

[steve7]

I haven't read the entire thread yet, but with regards to the beginning, I actually think training each body part once per week is counter-productive for most anyone.

Training splits need to be matched to the individuals recovery rates. For the novice trainee, recovery happens very quickly.... every 48 hours or so. Knowing this warrants something like a full body routine 3x per week.

This should be utilized until is stops working.

Once it stops, something above and beyond simple linear periodization probably has to be utilized.... something like an upper/lower or push/pull split.... still hitting various muscle groups multiple times per week.

Body part training once per week didnt come into the spotlight until anabolic substances started getting stuck in people's ass cheeks.

[Gooseneck]

As long as you're not going to failure with each exercise, than recovery time is shorted dramatically in the days ahead so its feasible to train the same part multiple times a week. The muscles only need to be stimulated to grow, they dont need to be worked to death.

[MAURER]

i personally like working each body part once every 4 days. i feel as though with 48 hours in between, you either don't hit them hard enough each time or you're going to overtrain eventually. However, i feel if you give a muscle more than 5 days rest, the muscle is not stimulated frequently enough to promote change. i am not a scientist by any means, but thats how i see it.

[steve7]

Originally Posted by MAURER

i personally like working each body part once every 4 days. i feel as though with 48 hours in between, you either don't hit them hard enough each time or you're going to overtrain eventually. However, i feel if you give a muscle more than 5 days rest, the muscle is not stimulated frequently enough to promote change. i am not a scientist by any means, but thats how i see it.

Right, this may be the case for you at this point in your training career.

However, I was speaking more along the lines of the novice trainee. On average, their adaptive/recovery responses from the stress of training play out so that training a few days gives them the most bang for the buck.

After a point, this form of linear periodization will not be sufficient and more recovery will have to be worked into the plan.