MTV's true life "I'm on steroids"

[threenorns]

i hear you on that - buddy in the next cage: "oh, my knees are killing me!" me: "that's cause you're not doing your squats right - you're stopping at the point of greatest load on the knee joint and you're letting your knees bow inward and your back arch out" him: "oh, but this is how i do them." me: "well, then, your knees will keep hurting right up to the point you blow out your ACL and then squats won't be an issue any more." <i was done, so i left without giving him a chance to say anything to look more stupid than he did>

[Dins_PR]

man up? vaginitis? why do something that hurts, that's dumb, I don't bang my head on the wall after each set of deadlifts cause if it hurts it's gotta be helping. More people have bad form during squats than just about any other exercise because people are out there yelling their heads off about how crucial squats are. I'm not a powerlifter, so I could care less about squats.

And man up? What do you do for cardio? Walk to the water fountain? Probably, cause powerlifters don't do cardio, I do sprints, I run stands, I bike, I swim. I have good lung capacity, and I do it all without having dents in my shoulders because all my lifting buddies go to bed at night and dream about doing squats.

Good for all you powerlifters, I think it's commendable when you lift huge weights, but don't get on your high horses and say if it doesn't hurt it doesn't work. I work for overall physical conditioning.

[threenorns]

lol - leaping to assumptions, there, buddy. we do cardio just like bodybuilders do and we often do more cardio than bodybuilders do. granted, i "only" walk five days a week, but i'm walking 3.25 to 11.5 miles a day at a pace brisk enough for me to go without my coat or sweater (just a t-shirt and jeans) at subzero temperatures. in the summer, i swim an hour or longer daily and that's constant movement, since i swim in lakes where the water is well over my head and the current is fairly strong. my vo2 max is ranked superior and my resting heart rate is in the high 40s - hardly that of someone with poor cardiovascular conditioning, powerlifter or not.

the "dictionary of weightlifting, bodybuilding, and exercise terms and terminologies" refers to squats as "the king of exercises"
http://www.trygve.com/weightsglossary.html

an article on that site, written by chuck clark, editor of cyberpump.com, (a bodybuilding website) says

The main reason the power rack gathers dust while there is a line for the angled leg press is because squats HURT! It doesn't matter whether it's the skinny beginner using the "big wheels" on each side for the first time or the bonafide 600+ squatter stepping under an already bending bar. They both feel some pain when doing this exercise. Learn to live with it! The most productive exercises are the most painful. It's a fact of life. If you squat with proper technique and heavy (for you) poundage, you might grunt, scream, cry, hurl and/or pass out, but you prob'ly won't be injured and you'll make terrific headway towards your goals. Learn to be aggressive and focus your complete attention on the task at hand. Good luck and happy training!

http://www.trygve.com/mfw_faq.html#waytosquat

[Dins_PR]

Well good for chuck, I'm glad he's leading the revolution back to the squat rack. Now I can use the leg press without having to wait.

And why is the squat the king of exercises? What about the military press? It works many muscles. What about the dip or the pullup? These are the king of exercise because you don't see people loading the bar with huge weight and grunting and growling. People just like the squat cause it hurts.

Oh, and good job on the swimming, it's great stuff. So is walking, if you are walking uphill consistently it's a great cardio workout.

[Vas85]

Originally Posted by Firehawk

People just make excuses for EVERYTHING. For cryin out loud. If it hurts then wrap a towel around the bar. lol

No, let me translate. They're too hard. nuff said.

That is well said, umm at my gym for when i do squats, there is a cylindrical cushion/padding that you put around the bar in the middle which covers for your back/neck so that it doesn't hurt as much, i think most gyms have that, and it helps a great deal.


And 3N i think your statement about not seeing any bb'ers do big squats, is maybe related to the fact that as bb'ers it is not our aim to prove to the world how much we can squat / deadlift / or bench achieve pr's and break records etc... hence why its not filmed as often/much or at all, as powerlifters go to the meets, bodybuilders go to contests.., you don't see bb'ers rock up to Mr Olympia and then have a Squat posedown.. its two different sports, i respect all powerlifters for what they go through, some of my routines do lean kind of towards powerlifting style, but its not for meets, purely for self, so that may be why you don't see as much.

[threenorns]

unfortunately, while excellent exercises, the military press, dip, and pullup just don't have as much effect as the squat does. they don't work the same number of muscles and they don't work the entire body as a unit. if you were to do no other exercises, doing only squats, bench press, and deadlift would build you a better body. leave out squat and you just won't get the same results or as fast. that's just the way it is - the squat is pretty much regarded throughout the fitness industry as a whole as one of life's unpleasant necessities - kinda like really bad-tasting medicine.

vas: i didn't say i didn't see bbers do big squats, i said i don't see them doing them correctly. 415 should've been a respectable squat for a guy ruhl's size. if they're going to put them on film at all, they can at least make sure they're putting decent form on record.

this is what i'm talking about: http://www.filecabi.net/u.php?file=1126118860.wmv the first set, he's got about 220lbs on the bar (2 x 15kg plus 1 25kg per side) and he's barely reaching parallel. the second set, he adds way more weight, and doesn't even go as low as he did on the first set. his shoulders are also hunched and rounded forward. like i said, beginners will look at this tape and think this is the proper way to do it because "look at the size of his quads!" due to that bit of video love in the middle for his quads. it directly implies that doing squats built those quads (which we all know just ain't necessarily so).

[Vas85]

That's fair enough, and i understand where you are coming from, but i don't think it is well to generalise that all bb'ers do squats incorrectly in form, that would also be having a nudge at our big man Todd . But i do see why you said it, becuase obviously for a powerlifter it is one of the three most crucial exercises, so with that powerlifters generally will take a grasp at making sure they are doing the squats correctly, but that still doesn't rule out the not-fully-educated bber or powerlifter that will do it incorrectly.

[Khaine]

Originally Posted by Firehawk

Sounds like you have a case of vaginitis.

ahahahahahh best insult on DF in the new year...

Why doesn't 300lbs hurt my shoulders...? My boy's girl won't do squats cus her shoulders hurt, but she's about a buck oh five and skinny as hell, so I can see that... The rest of us should be able to rest the bar comfortably (it's all relative) on our traps...

[luke.w]

Originally Posted by Dins_PR

And why is the squat the king of exercises? What about the military press? It works many muscles. What about the dip or the pullup? These are the king of exercise because you don't see people loading the bar with huge weight and grunting and growling. People just like the squat cause it hurts.

even a strict overhead press you tighten the legs and use energy from them, but it won't happen with a weak lowerbody.

doing squats will make one better at these lifts anyway, so you should really get more involved in your training before you state things like this, the squat will build stronger hips,back,and legs, this will make someone a better overhead presser..........have you not ever heard of training a weakness?

These statements don't help a newbie or even a more advanced person, it only makes them agree with the "excuse" not to train a weakness.

The squat can be painful at times, the trick is to leave the ego at the door and do it right, after that......no more pain, just pure satasfaction and gains.

[Firehawk]

Originally Posted by Dins_PR

man up? vaginitis? why do something that hurts, that's dumb, I don't bang my head on the wall after each set of deadlifts cause if it hurts it's gotta be helping. More people have bad form during squats than just about any other exercise because people are out there yelling their heads off about how crucial squats are. I'm not a powerlifter, so I could care less about squats.

And man up? What do you do for cardio? Walk to the water fountain? Probably, cause powerlifters don't do cardio, I do sprints, I run stands, I bike, I swim. I have good lung capacity, and I do it all without having dents in my shoulders because all my lifting buddies go to bed at night and dream about doing squats.

Good for all you powerlifters, I think it's commendable when you lift huge weights, but don't get on your high horses and say if it doesn't hurt it doesn't work. I work for overall physical conditioning.

Dude you are clueless about what any kind of lifters do. Squats are not a dedicated powerlifting exercise, just like cardio is not a dedicated bodybuilding exercise.

Squats are NOT DONE because they hurt for most average lifters like yourself. People are afraid to do them, just like they're afraid to do deadlifts. Rather than NOT do squats because you're worried about form issues, start with the bar and make sure your form is solid.

You are obviously talking out of your ass. Last year at the 2005 Senior Nationals, 90% of the powerlifters there were 10% bf or less. Try going to one before acting like you know what you're talking about.

[rbuchman]

Like or not Squats are NOT universally accepted as the best move ever. A significant portion of Collegiate strength coaches even won't let their athletes do them b/c of the injuries/stresses associated with them, while the others say they are the most essential move in lifting while a third portion is in favor of squats but only with a K bar. And these are trained professionals dealing with serious athletes.

But let's get back to topic steroids and looking bigger than you are strong.

[luke.w]

Originally Posted by rbuchman

Like or not Squats are NOT universally accepted as the best move ever. A significant portion of Collegiate strength coaches even won't let their athletes do them b/c of the injuries/stresses associated with them, while the others say they are the most essential move in lifting while a third portion is in favor of squats but only with a K bar. And these are trained professionals dealing with serious athletes.

But let's get back to topic steroids and looking bigger than you are strong.

I'm taking a good guess that most "coaches" that coach sports don't even know how to properly train their athlete's in the squat, this is why they get injured.

Dan isn't here this week, but he's a CSCS and he told me an interesting story (one that I wasn't surpised at all with) about a college basket ball coach and his squatting knowlage with his athletes.

[rangers97]

Originally Posted by threenorns

this is what i'm talking about: http://www.filecabi.net/u.php?file=1126118860.wmv the first set, he's got about 220lbs on the bar (2 x 15kg plus 1 25kg per side) and he's barely reaching parallel. the second set, he adds way more weight, and doesn't even go as low as he did on the first set. his shoulders are also hunched and rounded forward. like i said, beginners will look at this tape and think this is the proper way to do it because "look at the size of his quads!" due to that bit of video love in the middle for his quads. it directly implies that doing squats built those quads (which we all know just ain't necessarily so).

oh my Lord, that was pretty pathetic...

[rangers97]

Originally Posted by Vas85

That's fair enough, and i understand where you are coming from, but i don't think it is well to generalise that all bb'ers do squats incorrectly in form, that would also be having a nudge at our big man Todd . But i do see why you said it, becuase obviously for a powerlifter it is one of the three most crucial exercises, so with that powerlifters generally will take a grasp at making sure they are doing the squats correctly, but that still doesn't rule out the not-fully-educated bber or powerlifter that will do it incorrectly.

We also have to define what "correctly" means. I am in still in a "learning phase" of trying a routine that a powerlifter would use, and they do their squats completely different than almost 95% of everyone else does them. Most people stand with their feet about shoulder width or a little more and hold the bar somewhere close to the power rings with their hands. Squatting in this way will tend to work your quads and lower back the most. There are also the most taxing way to do it because your low back might hurt if you don;t arch properly, or your shoulders might hurt from holding the bar the next day, I believe this is why people say "they hurt".

Now, the powerlifting type, they put their stance VERY wide and hold the bar very wide, almost at the plates. Now, after trying this stance for the first time the other day, I can definitively say that it is MUCH more comfortable of a position (if there is such a thing with squats). This stance works your hamstrings, glutes and hip muscles, while using the quads MUCH less. The day after, my ass, hips and hams felt it, but my quads were fine. No shoulder pain either, as the wide hand spacing helps alleviate that.

Now this isn;t to say that we wouldn;t squat with a narrower stance as well. I think I might go with the wide stance for my max attempts and then after lower the weight and rep out a few sets with the narrower stance to get my quads some work.

Just remember, there really is no "right" stance...just do what feels the best for YOU and your body. If you see someone like Todd who probably does it with about a shoulder width or slightly wider foot stance, that doesn't mean you need to do it the same way. That works for him, you must find what works for you. If you find this stance, I guarantee, the whole lift becomes a lot more productive and you won;t have the general fear to do them that a lot of people have.

[luke.w]

ever seen an olyimpic lifter squat, they squat high bar and about shoulder width, only when they start getting into max efforts with a "clean" and "snatch" the stance gets only a little wider.

When I first got into the 400's with bottom position squatting I used a semi-wide stance, now I'm over the mid-400's and using only alittle over shoulder width, once the hips and other muscles get "STRONGER" one can go more narrow without breaking form.