Muscle Cannibalization

[Shamrock]

I've been debating this for awhile and perhaps everyone can shade some light on the issue?

I have seen a large crowd believe in the cutting/bulking routine, my perception of this seems to be cutting's purpose is to strictly drop your body fat percentage. Your nutritional goals in this case are to consume less calories then you burn, thus creating the fat loss energy deficit?
Where as bulking's primary concern would be to fuel your muscles with the proper nutrition they require to grow?

My question is when does muscle canabalization come into effect? Lets say we use my routine as an example. When I began my new healthy lifestyle just over 5 weeks ago I began the standard 7 meal diet which would amass 14-1600 calories per day. This was accompanied by light resistance training and an abundance of cardio.

Two weeks ago I switched to 2100 calories per day still rich in Protein. But now am on a 4 day weight training regimen accompanied by light cardio (20-30 min per day at moderate intensity - 65-80% max HR). If Fitday is to be trusted I am burning 4800-5100 calories during a gym day. I wonder if such a large deficit is:
a) Hindering muscle growth
or even further b) Causing muscle canablization

Just wondering what everyone's opinions are?

[OverStyx]

A rule of thumb I've been hearing is not to go over a 1000 calorie deficit, and if training intensely then add more calories.

Using the Harris Benedict you should get your daily calories intake, now I dont know your stats so I cant do this, but I'd estimate with your current regime your probably very active to extra active, meaning you have to multiple your BMR by 1.7 or 1.9 depending. Then subtract 1000 from this for 2 pounds a week. I usually like to play it safe and go 500.

In your current situation you have B happening, in my opinion.

<Formula for BMR and Daily calorie needs>
http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-ca...dict-equation/

In conclusion, I think you should be eating more than you are.

[Shamrock]

6'0 196 lbs (down 1 from last week)

I'm getting roughly 3500 calories perday, and I'm eating 2100-2300.

I wonder how big on a issue this is/what the effects are?

[Rats!]

Originally Posted by Shamrock

I wonder if such a large deficit is:
a) Hindering muscle growth
or even further b) Causing muscle canablization

I have been thinking about this too.

When I started my current training regimen 2 months ago I was only eating 2000-2500 cal. per day and saw barely any gains and my fat % stayed the same.

I've been eating 2500-3500 cal. per day (on cheat days I probably eat 5000+) for the past couple weeks and have gained 3 lbs. and had slight drop in fat % and I don't do much cardio.... only 2 or 3 12-16 minute HIIT sessions per week.

So it could very well be that even though I was working my ass off in the gym, I wasn't eating enough calories to support muscle growth, and since no new metabolically active tissue was being created, my fat % did not decrease.

[abarlament]

To put it simply there are only a few things that affect muscle loss:

1) Resistance training
2) Amount of protein consumed, calories
3) p-ratio
4) BF% (which affects p-ratio)

and I guess you could throw in
5) Drugs
although it doesn't apply to most people.

[Shamrock]

I'm following you Abarlament and I'm not...

[Todd]

It's nearly impossible to figure out an exact calorie figure of what is going to cause enough of a calorie deficit to begin lean muscle canibalization. Trial and error with food intake will enable you to find the happy medium for what you are trying to accomplish.

Too many factors come into play to try and narrow it down with numbers. What it comes down to is that you must make gradual changes to your diet (etiher adding or taking away clean calories) over the span of time, while tracking your modifications. This is what I mean by trial and error. Only then will you finally figure out exactly the amount of calories (and types of calories) your body requires in order to reach your goals. Everyones body composition and metabolism is different, and so are everyone's daily nutritional requirements, so therefore you must take the time to find your needed calorie intake.