muscle failure

4InchBicep · 30-Mar-07, 11:35 PM

i work out a muscle until I cant do anymore of that exercise, sometimes I move the weight up sometimes I move it down for the next set, then i repeat that same method for a few sets( usually about 5 or 6sets). it seems like I get way better of a workout instead of trying to do a preset set/rep system. i do this with triceps,biceps,pecs,shoulders,lats

what do you guys think about that, are there any ups/downs to doing it like this?.

F_Mac · 30-Mar-07, 11:55 PM

Are you making progress this way?

That style of training would lead to overtraining pretty quick for most people.

arbit · 31-Mar-07, 02:59 AM

Working out to failure is general is not a good idea.
You have to work out smart, not just hard.
Its called bodybuildiing and not bodybreaking

**LiftGirl** · 02-Apr-07, 04:27 PM

I tried working out to failure for a few weeks. I made great progress, but soon I realized I wasn't looking forward to working out anymore. Mentally, it was just too draining for me. Therefore, I don't really like the idea.

P.S. Are you working your legs?

jakeman · 03-Apr-07, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arbit

Working out to failure is general is not a good idea.
You have to work out smart, not just hard.
Its called bodybuildiing and not bodybreaking

I'm curious, Arnold is infamous for his workout attitude: my muscles will grow or die, worked well for him or is it ust because he was a freak, and normal people can't train this way.

In the new muscle and fitness mag, they talk about his legs, he took 250lbs in the woods and did 60+ sets saying this way the muscle had to grow.

What does everyone think?

F_Mac · 03-Apr-07, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakeman

I'm curious, Arnold is infamous for his workout attitude: my muscles will grow or die, worked well for him or is it ust because he was a freak, and normal people can't train this way.

In the new muscle and fitness mag, they talk about his legs, he took 250lbs in the woods and did 60+ sets saying this way the muscle had to grow.

What does everyone think?

Arnold was a freak, as are all the guys in Flex, Muscle & Fiction.....etc. The majority of people cannot train this way successfully.

trainerbob · 03-Apr-07, 11:13 AM

Not just freaks but freaks on steroids and growth hormones.

I've been able to work to failure on a good portion of my sets in the past, without overtraining. I think the key is spacing your workouts appropriately, getting plenty of the right nutrition, and plenty of rest. That's easy to do when you're in college, but harder when you have a 40+ hours a week job and a family.

Cort · 05-Apr-07, 03:42 AM

As has been mentioned, your body can give out on you and your gains could halt or an injury could eventually occur.

The thing is, gauging the quality of your workout on how blasted or pumped your muscles feel isn't always the best method. Granted, high volume can be great if you know how to manage it by cycling in lower volume and plenty of food/rest.

trainerbob · 06-Apr-07, 03:49 PM

I find the thread of this discussion intriguing. I've always trained with weights to the point of muscle failure, or even past it (if my training partner showed up to help with that final 1 or 2 reps I couldn't do on my own). The only times I haven't trained that way was when I was working back into shape or my body told me not to. I've always believed this was the best way to stimulate significant muscle growth. I.e., a muscle will only grow and adapt if given enough of the proper stimulus.

But I'm reading from pretty much everyone else on this post that they feel it's detrimental to work to failure, which hasn't been my experience. My question is, has the mindset on muscle growth changed in the last 10-15 years, or is that 'work to failure' mindset more of a bodybuilder one? Thoughts?

07-Apr-07, 06:20 AM

Like you, I used to work to failure or psat it on a regular basis when I was younger. It left my muscles hard and with an ok physique, but it never put on mass the way I wanted.

Undoubtedly part of that was probably due to not having proper postworkout nutrition. Protein powders and drinks sucked back in the 70's -- anyone remember Bob Hoffman's soy and Weider's ready to drink protein? Gastly!!! But when I came back to the weights several years ago I dropped the "intensity" as they call it as well as some of the volume and I've been having much better growth despite being an older lifter.

I think the body will recover from more training protocols than we give it credit. If its working for you bob then stick with it. From my perspective I get tired of hearing people say that one particular method is the only way to add size. That gets annoying.

**.V.** · 07-Apr-07, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronMan

That gets annoying.

Yes it does.

Some ways are more effective than others, but all work to some extent. Some work better for this body, where another will work better for that body, but all do work.

If one is doing well with failure training, and doesn't overtrain then more power to them.

My ancient joints simply can't take it. But you know since I switched to sub-failure work I'm having the best results of my life. I'm lifting more than ever now. But you know, it's rapidly approaching failure training and in the next few weeks it will be time to reset and start over. But that's just me and the way I do it.

I always say, if something is working for you then ride it as far as it will take you. Then when it doesn't work anymore - change. Until then - enjoy what you are doing.

trainerbob · 07-Apr-07, 01:55 PM

Quite honestly, I've never put on mass the way I would have liked to either. I put on just enough to not totally embarass myself in a college contest almost 15 years ago. The judges just told me what I already knew, I needed more mass. I just chalked it up to being an ectomorph.

So when you're saying you dropped intensity and stopped working to failure, what does that mean specifically? Stop your sets at one rep before failure?

**.V.** · 07-Apr-07, 03:00 PM

Hey trainerbob, unless he's changed things I think Ironman is doing HST. The same thing I did to put the 30lbs on so fast. It's a good program.

I did it for a while then as my goals changed I switched to 5x5 which is very similar with submax loads most of the time, not working to failure most of the time, letting volume, frequency, and constant increases in load cause growth. By working lighter than your top weight, you can increase more frequently inducing more growth in many of us. There are others of course who work at maximum overload all the time and grow quite well on that.

07-Apr-07, 04:57 PM

Right now I'm not really following any kind of plan. Just working on technique of a few lifts that have interested me.

When I think of "intensity" from the HIT crowd I think of failure, forced reps, drop sets, etc. Because you are from that protocol bob, my mind uses that as a definition.

When I think of intensity in relation to my workouts I judge it on how I feel afterwards. If my muscles have a deep underlying fatigue then I know I hit them hard and my "intensity" was high. If my recovery was pretty quick then my intensity for that workout was lower. It isn't really something I can describe easily.

I generally stop my final set a rep short of "failure".