Negative Sets! Good or Bad??

[Todd]

Originally Posted by buff151

If you can't lift the weight by yourself you should not be lifting it at all.

Originally Posted by Lift2Live

That is completely silly. A good spotter/lifting partner is not only a safe plan but will make all of your lifts better and you'll bust through weight like nobodys biddness.

I think what Buff said is actually a good statement, and not silly at all. Spotters are there to SPOT you, not do the work for you, or help you lift it. Yes, if you all of the sudden fail within your set or something goes wrong, then of course having a spotter there is important, and for major lifts, it's a safe idea to have someone spot you. But, if your spotter is there to help you lift the weight up, this is then counterproductive to what you are trying to accomplish in the first place. They should not be there to help you lift the weight, and if they are, then you should not be lifting that heavy of a weight to begin with, because obviously you need help to do it. And if your spotter is helping you lift the weight for reps, then your muscles are not doing all the work...so what's the point?

I think that may have been what he meant by his above statement. So yes, it is safe to have a good spotter for your major lifts, but if the spotter is helping you lift, then you shouldn't be doing that weight to begin with.

[Vas85]

I Agree with Todd's/Buff's opinions, a spotter to me is good if you are planning to go to failure, were he/she can get the weight off and help you, or if anything goes wrong, the spotter comes to the rescue, if you are using a spotter to help you pump another 2 reps than normal, your only cheating yourself and it would be like lifting half the weight or so depending on how much of the load they are compensating from you.

[Cort]

Spotters are good for a lift off and to keep you from dropping weights on yourself. Also nice to have around if you're concerned about your form. It does get annoying if you get an unfamiliar spotter and they start holding onto the bar for the whole damn set lol, you then have to second guess whether its you lifting it or not.

[scud]

Negatives strengthen the tendons more than they help the muscles

[Maclane]

Originally Posted by Todd

I think what Buff said is actually a good statement, and not silly at all. Spotters are there to SPOT you, not do the work for you, or help you lift it. Yes, if you all of the sudden fail within your set or something goes wrong, then of course having a spotter there is important, and for major lifts, it's a safe idea to have someone spot you. But, if your spotter is there to help you lift the weight up, this is then counterproductive to what you are trying to accomplish in the first place. They should not be there to help you lift the weight, and if they are, then you should not be lifting that heavy of a weight to begin with, because obviously you need help to do it. And if your spotter is helping you lift the weight for reps, then your muscles are not doing all the work...so what's the point?

I think that may have been what he meant by his above statement. So yes, it is safe to have a good spotter for your major lifts, but if the spotter is helping you lift, then you shouldn't be doing that weight to begin with.

Totally Agree, I always cringe inside when i see somone handling way to much weight with their spotter working almost as hard as they are.

[luke.w]

Originally Posted by Maclane

Totally Agree, I always cringe inside when i see somone handling way to much weight with their spotter working almost as hard as they are.

These are mostlikely the people who give negatives a bad name, thats why I said the methods have to be used the right way.

quote from scud: negatives strengthen the tendons more then they help the muscle.

that can be a postive statement!!!, were you using it as a neg. statement?

[mmuscle]

Cheers guys :

[buff151]

Originally Posted by Todd

I think what Buff said is actually a good statement, and not silly at all. Spotters are there to SPOT you, not do the work for you, or help you lift it. Yes, if you all of the sudden fail within your set or something goes wrong, then of course having a spotter there is important, and for major lifts, it's a safe idea to have someone spot you. But, if your spotter is there to help you lift the weight up, this is then counterproductive to what you are trying to accomplish in the first place. They should not be there to help you lift the weight, and if they are, then you should not be lifting that heavy of a weight to begin with, because obviously you need help to do it. And if your spotter is helping you lift the weight for reps, then your muscles are not doing all the work...so what's the point?

I think that may have been what he meant by his above statement. So yes, it is safe to have a good spotter for your major lifts, but if the spotter is helping you lift, then you shouldn't be doing that weight to begin with.

That's exactly my point.
Why put a weight on the bar that you know in actuality there is no way you will be capable of lifting such a load? I never said anything about spotting, not lifting heavy weights, ect. I am referring to negatives, and Todd understood what I was stating. I believe negatives are useless.

[luke.w]

I understand what you are saying buff, and I agree about not messing with weight that the lifter can't handle, BUT doing negatives in an intellagent way is USEFUL not useless, therefore negative sets done at the right time and the right way are not useless.

A. you need strong tendons for negs. therefore lockouts are neccessary that way the lifter has the strength to support the weight on his own and control on the negative like a bench press. And 2-spotters would be the way to go on a bench, one on each end.

B. the neg. sets shouldn't be used alot, only from time to time.

I don't bench so I don't know if negs. work for increasing weight, I only used that as an example, I can't imagine it wouldn't benefit the lifter in some way. I AM using them on overheads and they are USEFUL, at least on that area, but like I said I jerk the weight overhead having total control over the weight.

I've seen olylimic videos of lifters doing negatives with the deadlift, using 2-spotters lifting the weight for them, and the lifter doing a controlled negative.

[mmuscle]

There seems to be a lot of debate on exactly how this exercise should be performed and indeed if it should be performed at all.

The consensus from what I've read in this series of threads is that the overall benefits are good. If performed correctly and in moderation.

Thanks for the replies

[rbuchman]

I think we need to define negative sets.
Are we talking about one, two or more forced reps (up with a spotter or momentum down on your own) at the end of a set and esp on your last set in which case I am a huge supporter of.

Or are we talking about loading up the bar with more wieght than you can lift even once and doing nothing but negatives which I think is stupid and has very limited if any use.

[threenorns]

i love negatives and i won't work without a spotter. i can't focus on the muscle if i have to worry and fiddle about grip and alignment and all the rest of it.

Totally Agree, I always cringe inside when i see somone handling way to much weight with their spotter working almost as hard as they are

that's nasty - drives me mental, too. i have a partner who keeps thinking of me in terms of being a "lady" (do NOT ask me where he got that idea because i resent it, lol) and insists on hovering his hands everywhere from the first rep. mind you, the irritation really boosts the adrenaline, so maybe it's his evil plan.

ALL my sets are done with a weight that requires some *slight* assistance on the third- and second-to-last weight (ie, a tap on the bar to get past the sticking point) and definite assistance on the last (ie, two fingers actually guiding the bar up). there should be no possible way to pump out another one and the spotter needs to rack the weight. this is true whether it's a 6-rep set or a 15-rep set.

[mmuscle]

Thanks for the responses guys!

[KetoManiac]

how would the negatives be used?

slow negatives during a regular working set?

using a 1 rep max weight (or heavier) and just doing negatives?

failing at say 5 reps then doing a few negatives with the same weight?

[mmuscle]

Originally Posted by KetoManiac

how would the negatives be used?

slow negatives during a regular working set?

using a 1 rep max weight (or heavier) and just doing negatives?

failing at say 5 reps then doing a few negatives with the same weight?

The third way is how I've been performing them.