real life practicality of squats and deadlifts

[rangers97]

Originally Posted by smm3

Straight legs don't bother your back?

its usually lighter weight, so no, not that much

[Klinger]

WHy not alternate them Westside style - light deads/heavy squat one session and heavy deads/light squat next session?

[rbuchman]

Originally Posted by luke.w

guys get "farmers implements" over a trap bar, you'll get much more out of them!

I hear people talk of these but I've never seen them. I recently talked my gym owner into buying a trap bar (open design not sure if I like it over the stardard closed configureation, bends a bit). Where can you buy them?

If my roommate signs up I may be able to talk him into buying more equiptment. For you gym rats out there this is a good strategy, bribe the owner with something like "if I bring in someone new" "if I pay the whole year in advance" etc. "would you buy this equiptmen" works pretty well and everyone's happy.

[rbuchman]

Originally Posted by a_welch503

And after you get one...let me know how you like it for shrugs. I'm thinking of getting one and the closest one to me is a 2.5 hour drive...I want the drive to be worth the effort. Not like my curling bar that I use for a prop to hold the door open on my gym.

Check online I just bought one for $130 plus $40 shipping.

[.V.]

Thanks for the tip. I don't buy anything online except for one suppliment from one company. Luckily enough, I've found one at play it again sports for 25.00. It's a long drive though if it won't make my shrugs better.

[abarlament]

Originally Posted by rangers97

i know we all have different goals and all. right now, my goal is to successfully build on a max-ot program. that being said, if I considered replacing squats with deadlifts, my leg day might look something like this for a cycle:

Deadlifts 2 sets 4-6 reps
Barbell Lunges 2 sets 4-6 reps
SLDL 2 sets 4-6 reps
Leg Curls 2 sets 4-6 reps
Leg extensions 2 sets 4-6 reps

Why would you do all those exercises when the HST crowd has experienced gains doing less?

[luke.w]

Originally Posted by rangers97

I was assuming he was getting at not necessarily having to go max-ot style on those exercises. Do singles, doubles, triples, things like that with squats and deads perhaps, and train the other movements max-ot style...

Not nessecarily, I've been training the deep knee bend (squats) (deep knee bend is the old version going ATG and sitting) with 4-6 right now and am working up for a big 20 repper, I've also done variations of the squat with up to 10reps.

I agree with what smm3 is saying "is it your tech."??? squatting improves over all form.

[rangers97]

Originally Posted by abarlament

Why would you do all those exercises when the HST crowd has experienced gains doing less?

Why not?

[Dan C]

Because those extra exercises may be impeding your recovery time, or it may be contributing to inability to do both squats and deadlifts.

Knowing that information, I would drop the leg curls & extensions (maybe the lunges too), and continue to squat.

[rangers97]

I hardly think that doing 10 total sets once per week for the legs is too much...Like I said, the main problem here is that I think, for what it's worth, that my lower back muscles cannot recover from doing heavy deadlifts and squats in the same week.

Remember that all of our goals are different, in fact, I don't even know if I have a goal right now, other than to continue working out on a regular basis. I am not training for a specific purpose other than I would suppose to keep my appearance up and to be somewhat stronger than the general population. So I don't feel it is a necessity to do this or that in my routines. LEts' face it, I would rather not do EITHER squats or deadlifts, but I know each has their own set of practical benefits, so I want to include at least one of them in my training.

Sure, the leg curl and leg extensions are pointless to some of you, but I suppose they help in the mold of "bodybuilding", and I sincerely doubt that adding 2 sets of each will hinder the recovery of my low back, which is the reason I began this thread!

So my best options seem to be:
1. Squat exclusively, no deads
2. Deadlift exclusively, no squats
3. Alternate each weekly
4. heavy/light alternate each week.
5. sumo deadlift heavy, squat narrow stance to REALLY focus on quads only (much lighter poundages needed)

In regards to #5, how narrow must you go to have the quads to the majority of the work in a squat? Shoulder width? Feet 6 inches apart?

[smm3]

From the info that you have given regarding your objectives, I would go with #4. A narrow squat will have you leaning farther forward and will put some extra work on the lower back. If that's the route your thinking about, I would get on the Smith so that you can get your feet out in front of you and sit straight down...no lean forward.

That being said, I'm sure that you understand all of the responses in this thread have some bias by the poster. Of course, their theories and "expertise" will lead their answer in one direction or another.

Now continuing from what I said earlier, if the tightness in your lower back continues throughout the week and affects other aspects of your life, even in lifting, then I would suspect that could be an important goal. Strengthen and stretch the lower back (and surrounding core or posterior chain) so as to not have that issue. I would further investigate why it is bothering you so.

[rangers97]

generally speaking, it only bothers me immediately after the exercises in question and possibly for the rest of that night...no trouble sleeping, usually fine the next day, only acts up again if I were to do another exercise that loaded the area within a few days. That is the main reason I want to give my low back a full week to recover.

Oddly enough, I did bent over rows yesterday with close to a 90 deg bend at the waist and a relatively heavy weight, and didn't experience any pain down there, ie, it held up quite well. So in effect, I think my muscles actually ARE strong down there, they just get overworked easily I guess...

[Klinger]

A little outside shoulder width and everything closer is ideal for quad strength. If you opt for super-close stance, start light to get used to the challenge of balance.

For your back, try doing planks on the day you work your abs. Start with 30-second holds and work up to a couple minutes. The move provides stability throughout your core.

[Dan C]

Maybe the leg curls/ext. tire your legs, thus forcing you to use more of your back when you squat/deadlift. It's possible.

Another option would be to front squat. That would force you to keep your torso upright which would limit the amount of back involvement in the squat.

But hey, if you would rather not do either, the problem isn't in your back, your legs or whatever... it's in your head!

Why would you say that?

[rangers97]

I don't think anyone truly WANTS to do either, we do them because we know for a fact how important they are. I don't look forward to either exercise like I do for other exercises, but that's a fact of life.

and I would presumably do the extra leg work AFTER the deads or squats, so in that regard they wouldn't be a factor with my back...