Steroids?

bgodd1 · 30-Dec-03, 10:36 AM

This is a long one..........sorry.

I have been reading alot of AST-Science site's articles. One of the reasons I am loyal to the site is they all claim to be natural. They all compete in natural contests and all are big, not freaky but still big. I am 226lbs, 6'2", 11% bodyfat. I just maxed out last week with 405 on flat bench (no bounce). I was talking to a friend of the family at a party discussing the topic of lifting when he advertised his use of steroids, saying I would not get any bigger & I would be lucky to get any stronger,that I'm as big as I'm going to get naturally. I argued referencing AST's Skip La'Cour and Jeff Willet.

What he is saying is they are lying, that there are ways to test negative for steroids by countering it with estrogen pills. I know people have their genetic limitations, but he made me think. Any thoughts or facts would be appreciated.

DaLinkWent · 30-Dec-03, 11:10 AM

I think the question lies in what you want. What are your goals? I think if your going after the Mr. Olympia title your going to need something other than the basics but I don't see why you'd stop growing or plateau if you continue to supply your body with the right amount of calories and protein etc.

At least that's the idea that I've tried to convince myself of. I've considered running a cycle of something as well to for fear of small growth but if that's the road your lookin I'd do a lot of research. Good research from established books and not a lot of garbage spewed over the net because somepeople have NO idea what they are talking about. (No offense to the bro's here who spew out good info

)

good luck

bgodd1 · 30-Dec-03, 11:25 AM

Not that I have anything against steroid user's, it's just not for me. I will go as far as my genetics will take me as long as I can still wipe my own ass.

Thanks for input DaLinkWent.

DaLinkWent · 30-Dec-03, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgodd1

Not that I have anything against steroid user's, it's just not for me. I will go as far as my genetics will take me as long as I can still wipe my own ass.

Thanks for input DaLinkWent.

My fault bro I missed what you were trying to get across but I wouldn;t let it get you too dwon I bet if you lift hard and eat right you be pushin 500lb on the bench like Jaster in no time.

peace

Lee J B · 30-Dec-03, 12:43 PM

Well I I too believe that with the correct amount of calories and knowledge you can keep going for a life time, however... there comes a point when constantly increasing calories and maintaining that for months gets stupid, such an example would be if your maxing your genetic potential... you'd be eating an insane amount of calories a day everyday....if you were to supplement with wise use of AS then you could gain 30lbs by probably not eating much more than you would be anyway at that level. I've not heard of testing negative that way, but it wouldn't suprise me.

DaLinkWent · 30-Dec-03, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee J B

Well I I too believe that with the correct amount of calories and knowledge you can keep going for a life time, however... there comes a point when constantly increasing calories and maintaining that for months gets stupid, such an example would be if your maxing your genetic potential... you'd be eating an insane amount of calories a day everyday....if you were to supplement with wise use of AS then you could gain 30lbs by probably not eating much more than you would be anyway at that level. I've not heard of testing negative that way, but it wouldn't suprise me.

That's a good way of puttin it bro but I got a question for you. When you said there comes a point when constantly increasing calories and maintaining that for months, i.e. maxing out your genetic potential. How do you know when you reach that point? Is that th epoint when you stop growing and typically is that something you reach when you surpass the age of 30?

fitmeister · 30-Dec-03, 02:59 PM

I think both sides of the steroids issue is pretty well known but I personally can't see how the positives of steroids would outway the negatives. Sure it may sound great now that they will get you stronger and bigger, but I guarantee when the day comes that they backfire, everyone who used them will say they weren't worth the risk. I totally agree with the people who say that eating the right amount of calories with real foods is the best way to go.

Lee J B · 30-Dec-03, 04:08 PM

DaLinkWent, well that's a good question bro... we know by sceince that the older you get the lower your testosterone levels become therefore you could assume it'd be harder to gain mass the older you get, like you said around 30 - 35 if you have been lifting a good part of those years and are struggling to gain mass, yet you might be eating more than ever ... in excess of 5000cals / day, well there you have it, you know something has to give way... everyone has a limit. I wish I could answer that question but I doubt anyone can, it's one for the personal judgement side of things... if I had to estimate I'd say if you have been working out for a good 15 years when you hit 35 years old your getting pretty damn close to your potential.

DaLinkWent · 30-Dec-03, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee J B

DaLinkWent, well that's a good question bro... we know by sceince that the older you get the lower your testosterone levels become therefore you could assume it'd be harder to gain mass the older you get, like you said around 30 - 35 if you have been lifting a good part of those years and are struggling to gain mass, yet you might be eating more than ever ... in excess of 5000cals / day, well there you have it, you know something has to give way... everyone has a limit. I wish I could answer that question but I doubt anyone can, it's one for the personal judgement side of things... if I had to estimate I'd say if you have been working out for a good 15 years when you hit 35 years old your getting pretty damn close to your potential.

That's a real good way to put it, Thanks!

It's something I had never really thought about before and the intial question kinda jogged my memory and made me think. I suppose based on genetics that everyone's limit varies and a lot depends on your training and eating habits through those years. Another thing that made me think about it was th efact I was reading an interview with Ronnie and he put on something like 20 lbs of muscle in a year and at his age I would imagine that's tough to do.

**MAURER** · 30-Dec-03, 05:47 PM

don't let anyone give you any limitations, limitations are excuses. just keep lifting and don't do anythnig you don't want to do. i agree there is nothing wrong with steroids, but if its not for you, don't think about it in the first place. you can reach great goals through working hard naturally. just keep lifting and don't thinkabout limitations but rather just think about how to improve upon where you are now.

Jackal · 30-Dec-03, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaLinkWent

That's a real good way to put it, Thanks!

It's something I had never really thought about before and the intial question kinda jogged my memory and made me think. I suppose based on genetics that everyone's limit varies and a lot depends on your training and eating habits through those years. Another thing that made me think about it was th efact I was reading an interview with Ronnie and he put on something like 20 lbs of muscle in a year and at his age I would imagine that's tough to do.

Ronnie coleman : IGF-r1. Look it up if you dont know what it is. It can push you beyond genetic potential and keep you there.

**Firehawk** · 30-Dec-03, 06:40 PM

About MAx OT...

Ive actually questioned the same exact thing about them. I am a believer in mAX OT but not in taking pro hormones or ANYTHING other than food and maybe a multivitamin to get what you want.

I dont think those things are necessary at ALL. Taking supplments may speed up the process, but I truly believe you can reach the same results , it will just take longer.

As far as the guys go on AST, well, pro hormones are LEGAL steroids in my opinion. They have all the same warnings and side affects of steroids, and the same effects on the body, except they are LEGAL. So, if they took those to get their NATURAL physique, hey cool for them.

As far as I AM CONCERNED, natural IN MY BOOK means not taking any stimulants that help you get where you want to be. Natural to me is eating right and putting tons of sweat into what you want to achieve. But, even competitions dont recognize my view of what "natural" is.

teenpumper · 30-Dec-03, 09:19 PM

your gonna **** yourself up big time!!!!! i don't care bout swaring i need to get this message across!!!!!! YOUR GONNA **** YOURSELF UP BIG TIME!!!!!!! don't listen to jock or those guys. go down the road 30 years and ask them if they had a chocie if they'd take steriods again. Their reply would probably be NO. If you're only looking to live 10 more years go for it. But if you want to live a long life messing with your body abilty to systhesize protein is not for you. People might not realize it but steriods are drugs. They change the chemistry of your body. If you make 1 mistake you can screw yourself up for life. Now you're bound to make mistakes. It's human nature. If someone wants to argue this topic bring it on.

**MAURER** · 30-Dec-03, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teenpumper

your gonna **** yourself up big time!!!!! i don't care bout swaring i need to get this message across!!!!!! YOUR GONNA **** YOURSELF UP BIG TIME!!!!!!! don't listen to jock or those guys. go down the road 30 years and ask them if they had a chocie if they'd take steriods again. Their reply would probably be NO. If you're only looking to live 10 more years go for it. But if you want to live a long life messing with your body abilty to systhesize protein is not for you. People might not realize it but steriods are drugs. They change the chemistry of your body. If you make 1 mistake you can screw yourself up for life. Now you're bound to make mistakes. It's human nature. If someone wants to argue this topic bring it on.

yo im glad to hear you respect your body, make smart choices, and are sound with it. how do you feel about the use of other performance enhancing products?

teenpumper · 30-Dec-03, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAURER

yo im glad to hear you respect your body, make smart choices, and are sound with it. how do you feel about the use of other performance enhancing products?

I was thinking about taking creatine but I saw there wasn't any long term research on it. I asked a qualified trainer on it and he said the same thing as i mentioned before. Protein powder is alright. I use it sometimes. It's just protein in the form of powder. But otherwise I stick to a good diet and get my nutrients there.