Strength vs. Progress

**Lady C** · 30-Mar-06, 03:18 PM

Ok, I guess it is about time I asked a question. . . .

I have been stuck in some of my lifts for quite some time. In some instances I have lowered the weight and still struggle. I am making progress with my lower bodyfat goals so something is working. I'm quite frustrated in the backward progress of my lifts.

EX: Bench press: I used to be able to do 115 x 4
Today I could only pump out 105 x 2.5 (needed a spotter).

I usually workout in the morning after eating something light like a 110 calories (27 carb) yogurt, piece of honey oat toast and coffee with cream. Is my pre-workout nutrition the problem? I used to workout on an empty stomach.

Any thoughts or ideas . . . .

Klinger · 30-Mar-06, 03:31 PM

Hmmm. That's not a lot of calories, but it doesn't seem likely to be the culprit if you were having success when you were eating nothing.

Is it just your bench or is it other lifts, too?

I would like to see a rough sketch of your routine.

For example, doing low- to moderate-rep chest work with heavier weight was always a chore for me when I did it within 48 hours of working my lats/traps. I just couldn't recruit enough back strength to bench effectively because of the fatigue, so I separated those two sessions by 3 days or more.

I should add that I have experienced the same thing. When that happened and it became a trend rather than an anomaly, I switched exercises: BB row instead of DB row or DB press instead of BB press. Etc. and so on.

tim_mcf · 30-Mar-06, 03:34 PM

When is the last time you switched your routine around? If you have been doing flat bench for a long time, maybe you should give it a rest for a month and do a variation or some other exercise to target the chest.

**maverick** · 30-Mar-06, 03:53 PM

Gotta go with these two. I think you aren't eating enough to really add strength, but you know yourself better than I do. Losing bodyfat and gaining strength is always going to be a tough battle, I know I had a tough time with it until recently. Switch up your exercises and don't focus solely on a few to gauge your strength. Try different variations, rep schemes, set counts, etc... to try and bust the plateau.

**Lady C** · 30-Mar-06, 06:34 PM

I switched my routine around about 3 weeks ago. Reduced worksets by 1 hoping to gain in strength. Theory was maybe I was saving energy for the last set.

I can't eat tons before working out, I don't have the time for it to digest. I get up at 5:30, eat and workout at 6:00.

DaRkAnGel · 30-Mar-06, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady C

Ok, I guess it is about time I asked a question. . . .

I have been stuck in some of my lifts for quite some time. In some instances I have lowered the weight and still struggle. I am making progress with my lower bodyfat goals so something is working. I'm quite frustrated in the backward progress of my lifts.

EX: Bench press: I used to be able to do 115 x 4
Today I could only pump out 105 x 2.5 (needed a spotter).

I usually workout in the morning after eating something light like a 110 calories (27 carb) yogurt, piece of honey oat toast and coffee with cream. Is my pre-workout nutrition the problem? I used to workout on an empty stomach.

Any thoughts or ideas . . . .

Jeez even if you are cutting i think only 110 calories is simply not enough. I can definetely see why you wouldn't be making progress on that little amount of food.

You are getting no protein either which is just as bad. If you want to lower your calories and still make progress a better option would be to cut the carbs and just take in the protein, but even then that's a horrible breakfast.

Add in 3-4 egg whites and another piece of toast and i think you'd be good to go.

If you can't stomach too much food in the morning another choice to consider is a shake. Put some oatmeal in there, fruit, protein and you can easily get 3-400 calories in a way that wont make you feel sick and is easy to put down.

DaRkAnGel · 30-Mar-06, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tim_mcf

When is the last time you switched your routine around? If you have been doing flat bench for a long time, maybe you should give it a rest for a month and do a variation or some other exercise to target the chest.

Honestly i dont think that's very good advice. The best thing you can do for flat bench is to flat bench and it makes no sense to take the exercise away if you wanna improve in it.

CF-OC_gal · 30-Mar-06, 07:31 PM

When was the last time you took a break away from it altogether? Like a week off?

Also, is your lower bodyfat goal temporary or are you going to maintain the lower level as normal now? Maybe you'll be sacrificing strength for leaness in the long run or until you adjust to living at "the new BF%".

**Lady C** · 30-Mar-06, 07:52 PM

Honestly, you guys need to read. I mention one item that is 110 calories and you quit reading the rest. I added up my meal on fitday; Totals: 426cals 14g fat, 61g carbs, 17 g protein. That isn't as tiny as you guys are thinking.

Aha maybe thats it, Brat. I can't remember the last time I took a whole week off. Probably October when I went on vacation. So maybe it is time for a break.

DaRkAnGel · 30-Mar-06, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady C

Honestly, you guys need to read. I mention one item that is 110 calories and you quit reading the rest. I added up my meal on fitday; Totals: 426cals 14g fat, 61g carbs, 17 g protein. That isn't as tiny as you guys are thinking.

Aha maybe thats it, Brat. I can't remember the last time I took a whole week off. Probably October when I went on vacation. So maybe it is time for a break.

Maybe you shouldnt be so quick to assume. I read everything you said and still i do not see what you are talking about. So are you getting 300 calories from your "piece of honey oat toast and coffee with cream"? A piece of toast doesn't dramatically change anything.

eric · 30-Mar-06, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady C

I switched my routine around about 3 weeks ago. Reduced worksets by 1 hoping to gain in strength. Theory was maybe I was saving energy for the last set.

I can't eat tons before working out, I don't have the time for it to digest. I get up at 5:30, eat and workout at 6:00.

New workouts can take a while to break in. Hang in there, it will come around.

Amkey · 31-Mar-06, 09:21 AM

Lady,
I work out the same as you (early in the morning) I get up at 4:40 and I am working out by 5:00. There is no way in hell I could even eat as much as you do. I was doing an 150 cal smoothie before my workouts and now I am not, and lifting empty. It makes no change in my lifting. Currently I am benching 115x6 and sometimes I can push 1 set of 8, but for the freaking LIFE of me I can not bench even 2 sets of 120. So I am working on that and I have found that reversing my chest routine evey other week is helping. For instance right now I do flat, incline, then decline. The next week I will do decline, incline, then flat (although I am super taxed by the flat come around) I seem to feel stronger when I hit the flat first the next week. I am also making myself try 120 all the time. I do it with a spotter and just because I know I can do that third set right now, I try like hell.

I don't agree with the perfect timing of eating exactly. I have eaten a perfect ratio meal before a heavy leg workout and I threw it up all over the place in the gym. I can not eat heavy then workout.

**cursor** · 31-Mar-06, 10:47 AM

It's great to see you post again, Amkey. It's been awhile, eh?

Glycogen stores (that part of us that fuels our weight-training workouts) is best refueled within a short time after our workouts. Metabolism is high and muscle tissue is hungry. If we DON'T eat properly within that relatively narrow time-frame, then available glycogen for our next session will be less than it could be.

It's not what you eat an hour before your exercise session that contributes to maximal glycogen storage. Preparation for physical exertion starts when you finish your previous workout.

As the glycogen in your muscles reaches a low point, the enzyme glocogen sythase is released (and you can guess what it's job is ... right?). THAT is the time to hit the carbohydrates! Over the course of 24 hours, potential glycogen replenishment looks something like this:

hours 01-04 _ nnnnnnnnn
hours 05-08 _ nnnnn
hours 09-12 _ nnn
hours 13-16 _ nn
hours 17-20 _ n
hours 21-24 _ n

Eating the right kind of carbohydrates, and at the right times is the key to rebuilding your glycogen stores for the next exercise session.

**.V.** · 31-Mar-06, 10:57 AM

LC, I know you and cursor are the "balanced diet" gurus so don't have a stroke when I tell you what I do. When my workouts stall I > 1. Take a week off. and > 2. Make diet changes. Perhaps you could use a bit more protein and fat in your diet to help make the muscles grow stronger. Carbs are terriffic for energy, but they do not turn into muscle the way protein does. Perhpas look at something like what Todd reccomended to me. Protein, Carbs, Fat in that order, instead of Carbs, Protein, Fat. Like the Max OT diet reccomendations except scaled way down to suit your needs.

Obviously, you would never even consider the drastic diet changes like I do...almost equal protein and fat with very low carbs. But there has to be a balance that will give you optimum results. I know that with persistance you will find it.

One thing I can tell you for certain is that high protein, low fat, and low carbs is a bad idea. Had to try it to find out though.

Good luck with it.

**Lady C** · 31-Mar-06, 11:23 AM

Wow - Amkey - nice to hear from you.

Okay, I am going to try two things (not together obviously.) A few sessions I will eat a bit more before the workout. If that seems to make little or no difference, I will return back to where I was and keep pushing through the weight like Amkey suggested. It is encouraging to see I'm not the only one struggling.

I do get enough protein throughout the day so I'm not worried about a bit less in my pre-workout meal.