Strong as bull or ripped to shreds - Page 4

**maverick** · 12-Sep-05, 05:15 PM

Some people are predisposed towards getting bigger, some towards getting smaller. Work with what ya got to reach whatever goal fits. Firehawk is absolutely right, when I start cutting, weight flies off me. Yes I have a fast metabolism, but its the commitment to my diet and cardio that gets me to my goal. Since my goal was to be shredded, I had to remain committed and minimize things that would sidetrack my progress.

I like going to the gym. I like lifting heavy weights. I like setting PRs. To me (personally, so this is not a knock on PLs), powerlifting does not require nearly as much sacrifice or discipline as trying to reach a low bodyfat level. I think Firehawk would probably agree with me. I know that the powerlifters he works out with (and himself of course) pour their blood, sweat, and tears into their workouts. But thats cause they love what they are doing.

The difference is that when I'm cutting, I hate it! Restricting your diet sucks ass, you have to deal with cravings, more fatigue in the gym, always careful of overtraining, and all the mindf*cks that come with it. I love the result though. Thats what I meant when I mentioned discipline earlier. Believe me, whenever I get my ideal body (should that ever happen), I'm just gonna eat around my maintenance calorie level and just do heavy compound exercises for the rest of my life!

**Firehawk** · 12-Sep-05, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maverick

Some people are predisposed towards getting bigger, some towards getting smaller. Work with what ya got to reach whatever goal fits. Firehawk is absolutely right, when I start cutting, weight flies off me. Yes I have a fast metabolism, but its the commitment to my diet and cardio that gets me to my goal. Since my goal was to be shredded, I had to remain committed and minimize things that would sidetrack my progress.

I like going to the gym. I like lifting heavy weights. I like setting PRs. To me (personally, so this is not a knock on PLs), powerlifting does not require nearly as much sacrifice or discipline as trying to reach a low bodyfat level. I think Firehawk would probably agree with me. I know that the powerlifters he works out with (and himself of course) pour their blood, sweat, and tears into their workouts. But thats cause they love what they are doing.

The difference is that when I'm cutting, I hate it! Restricting your diet sucks ass, you have to deal with cravings, more fatigue in the gym, always careful of overtraining, and all the mindf*cks that come with it. I love the result though. Thats what I meant when I mentioned discipline earlier. Believe me, whenever I get my ideal body (should that ever happen), I'm just gonna eat around my maintenance calorie level and just do heavy compound exercises for the rest of my life!

Well that goes back to my whole point. It fully depends on the person. Some people can stay shredded without much effort (most can't though).

I do agree though that controlling the diet is harder than anything else. For me, cutting is probably the hardest thing I've ever had to do.

**Todd** · 12-Sep-05, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firehawk

Well sure you can improve your metabolism, i certainly agree with that. But once those fat cells have been opened, your body remembers and will be quick to fill them back up if you have depleted them through fat loss.

I believe that the body has fat cell memory just like it has muscle memory. Once someone has been 300 lbs they can get back to it far easier than someone that's never been 300 lbs.

Actually, here is some info on fat cells, and that by getting extremely lean, you can change your fat cells formation....

"The second important aspect to re-setting your body’s “set point” weight involves your fat cells themselves. The latest research suggests that to prevent unwanted fat gain after successful fat loss, make sure fat cells are depleted of their contents. If a person is able to totally deplete their fat cells of fat (triglycerides) these cells actually reprogram or, re-establish a “new set point” for fat accumulation. While this may sound a little drastic, competitive bodybuilders and body shapers endure this process every time they compete in a contest.

Setting a goal of competing in a bodybuilding or body shaping competition is an excellent way to deplete your fat cells of their contents and force them to accept a new “set point” for fat accumulation. Unfortunately, many bodybuilders blow their chance of establishing a new set point after their competition day by pigging out for weeks on end after the show is over. If a competitor can manage to curb this binging process to a few enjoyable, “cheat meals” after competition, they can re-program their set point so their fat cells are not so ravenous to accumulate body fat."

**MostMuscle** · 12-Sep-05, 06:31 PM

Interesting stuff Todd........where can I find out more?

**maverick** · 12-Sep-05, 06:58 PM

Would CLA help in setting this new "set point"? I don't know a lot about CLA, other than it is supposed to lower triglycerides.

**Todd** · 12-Sep-05, 07:04 PM

Well, I had just come across that info on the AST site when I searched for a few keywords. (here is the full article I found). I have looked on Google for some other articles and info, but I can only find some general info on the "body fat set point theory", but nothing directly related to how you can change it by getting super lean, as a bodybuilder would when dieting down for a contest. I will keep looking tho.

**Firehawk** · 12-Sep-05, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd

Actually, here is some info on fat cells, and that by getting extremely lean, you can change your fat cells formation....

"The second important aspect to re-setting your body’s “set point” weight involves your fat cells themselves. The latest research suggests that to prevent unwanted fat gain after successful fat loss, make sure fat cells are depleted of their contents. If a person is able to totally deplete their fat cells of fat (triglycerides) these cells actually reprogram or, re-establish a “new set point” for fat accumulation. While this may sound a little drastic, competitive bodybuilders and body shapers endure this process every time they compete in a contest.

Setting a goal of competing in a bodybuilding or body shaping competition is an excellent way to deplete your fat cells of their contents and force them to accept a new “set point” for fat accumulation. Unfortunately, many bodybuilders blow their chance of establishing a new set point after their competition day by pigging out for weeks on end after the show is over. If a competitor can manage to curb this binging process to a few enjoyable, “cheat meals” after competition, they can re-program their set point so their fat cells are not so ravenous to accumulate body fat."

That article basically made itself void in the second half of the last paragraph lol. I don't buy it at all anyway. Just like muscles have memory, so do fat cells. I don't really see how they could be "reprogrammed".

Most, if not ALL competitive bodybuilders were never that big to begin with anyway. If they were then they woulda had stretch marks all over the place. I dunno, i am afriad i'll need alot of studies to start believing that one.\

Once you been there, you're always prone.

I also tend to want to think that there isn't too many competitive bodybuilders out there that struggle with their weight. Any competitive bodybuilders i've ever met don't really struggle with their weight.

**Firehawk** · 12-Sep-05, 08:44 PM

I'm lookin around and can't find anything about reprogramming fat cells. All i find is when a person gets really overweight they actually grow fat cells and then it makes them even more prone to putting on fat. Then once fat is lost, the fat cells never die (except through liposuction).

I'd love to see more on reprogramming fat cells.

Cort · 12-Sep-05, 09:19 PM

At one point I was around 30% bodyfat. Since I cut my weight down (2-3 years ago now) I've never gone above 12-13% once, even when I've been fairly loose with my diet. Granted I only had to lose about 60 lbs of fat, so I can see it being a bit different for someone who has to lose up to 100-120+ lbs.

**maverick** · 12-Sep-05, 10:20 PM

Didn't Lee Priest (5'4") bulk to like 270 lbs. in the off season?

**.V.** · 12-Sep-05, 10:23 PM

Dave, you remember how big I was don't ya?

When I cut down and worked on getting my bodyfat low enough. Learned to eat effectively, learned to exercise effectively... now I have trouble gaining weight(sure as hell can't build much muscle). It is more than just re-training fat cells though, it is re-training the mind to want something different (food choices). Retraining the body to burn fat instead of store it. I think a lifetime of having more muscle instead of fat is definitely doable now. Of course if I went back to the old habits of eating too many carbs for my body, not eating enough protein or fat, eating only once or twice a day, overeating on those two meals - I could definitely become obese again.

So I think it's more about retraining yourself to just live a different lifestyle along with raising that metabolism that eliminates the struggle. If one keeps having cheat days or weeks, finding times, reasons to splurge, then the body or mind may feel deprived when not getting those things - leading to more difficulty.

Just my opinion, this is how it works for me.

Now, anybody finds the key to "loose skin reprogramming", please let me know.

**Firehawk** · 13-Sep-05, 06:30 AM

Andy it doesnt' sound like you reprogrammed your fat cells, rather you just reprogrammed your eating habits. Apples and Oranges.

I dunno, maybe as much effort as it takes to get down that lean, by then your mental state has changed to disliking all the good things, or at least disliking eating too much of the junk food

.

Anyway, i'll know first hand whenever i get down to 10%, if ever. lol

**maverick** · 13-Sep-05, 09:11 AM

I think thats his point, that this "reprogramming" of fat cells(if it exists), isn't necessary. If you want to do it and have the discipline to do it, you can. Nobody should be using bodytype as their reason for not cutting/bulking. Yes, it may be harder, but its always doable.

Firehawk, you make the statement that unless a person had a high bodyfat percentage, they don't fully understand how hard it can be to lose and keep off weight. Have you ever been 10% bodyfat or lower? If not, you may be surprised how lean sensibility can keep you once you are there. Obviously, the road to 10% is the hard part, but it may not be as difficult as you perceive if you have not yet done it.

I don't think anyone here is trying to change your goals, just trying to get you to see the cutting aspect as more than a dead end of sacrifice and disappointment.

**Firehawk** · 13-Sep-05, 09:30 AM

I have friends that made it down to 11% bf and have the same body type and I've watched them have to eat absolutely 100% clean, no cheating, or they start going right back up in BF%. I haven't personally experienced it yet but from what I've seen, my body type just won't allow me to do certain things.

I mean i definitely want to get down there and I'll never really be able to stop battling my weight because of my body type, but I'm just trying to be realistic here.

**threenorns** · 13-Sep-05, 09:41 AM

okay, my two cents - and you know i'm qualified cause i've lost 100lbs twice before and i'm halfway through my third run. granted, it's not as much as you're looking at in total, but i'm a helluva lot shorter than you and i'm female - two places you're ahead of me in the game.

the first time, i weighed 220 and i GAINED weight on 1200 calories a day and on 1000 calories a day. i ended up on a medically-supervised VLCD (very low-calorie diet) of 750 calories a month for nine months.

once i got into the weights and the cardio and the blah-blah, it flipped - i had to eat 3500 calories a day to maintain my weight at 125 or i immediately plummeted to 115 and looked disgustingly anatomical.

it's never been that bad since (i musta bin, like, 60% bf or something back then), but it's still the same: when i get smaller and active, i have to eat more.

doesn't mean i was honking out on junk food - i had totally lost the taste for it. fatty foods gave me cramps and the runs. i also had to avoid salt (still do, except for jerky). but it was no deprivation - i enjoyed my foods. you can't beat a home-made burger where the meat's been marinated in worcestershire, garlic, and onion and served on a ciabatta bun with fresh tomato salsa, romaine, slabs of spanish onion... mmm-mmm-mmm!

there's all kinds of healthy food that's suspiciously "junk"-like in the way it goes down.