Strong as bull or ripped to shreds

[Todd]

Originally Posted by Firehawk

I'll even go a step further and agree that you can change your metabolism TO A POINT, or rather, temporarily. But, for those with a naturally SLOW metabolism, it's never really fixed permanently. If you work yourself to the point you get your metagbolism up and burning fat more and more, but hten one day stop, you're gonna revert right back to a slow metabolism and things will start snowballing against you. There's no sudden complete change in the body's natural way. That's wishful thinking.

This is the type of stuff I am talking about....you saying it is wishful thinking is what is going to dead-end you before you begin! Why do you believe such things as this?

If you increase your metabolism and it is running high, it is not going to change over night and then snowball against you, as you said above. It would take time for your metabolism to switch back to being slow. You'd have to do everything differently than what you had been in order for that to happen.

Todd, if you were to stop eating, or eat 3000 a day rather than 5000 or whatever it took for you to grow or maintain, you're gonna start losing mass.

Yes, I would, because I am placing demands on my body from training, so my body requires extra nutrients, and if I don't supply them, then my body will look elseware to get them...and that would be my lean muscle mass. So yep, I agree with ya! But ya know what? Do you know what happens when your body begins to feed on your lean muscle tissue? It SLOWS your metabolism down, because lean muscle is what helps get your metabolism fast.

Your body didnt' one day reprogram itself and suddenly your metabolism will begin to slow. It's your body's natural way of things to have a fast metabolism. You cant permanantly change that. That's what i'm trying to get at.

Again, you are wrong. I could change my metabolism....I'll say it again...I could eat the amount of foods I do now and decrease my exercise (energy expenditure), and I would gain fat and my metabolism would slow down considerably. Look at the typical couch potato guy who eats crap, drinks beer and doesn't execise regularly.... they are fat and lazy. Why? Because their metabolism is slow. I could make myself that way...and make it stay that way pretty easily man.

Point being, YOU CAN change your metabolism permanently...for the better or for the worse, depending on what your activity level is, what you eat, how much you eat, whether or not you get enough sleep each night.

I have personally watched a few of my own uncles go from being very well built and lean naturally when they were in their 20's, to being lazy fat asses who eat crap and drink quite a bit now that they are in their 40's. Did they start out with naturally fast metabolisms? Yep, cuz that is where I get my genes from (my mom's side of the family). Has their metabolism changed over the years to become slower? Yep! And it is because of their choice of lifestyle, their daily activity level (lack thereof), and their eating habits.

I don't want to hear anymore excuses.

[Todd]

Originally Posted by Firehawk

Looks to me like for you to become 30% bf you'd have to eat 6-7000 calories a day if your requirement is 5000 right now, and then all you'd have to do to lose your fat is cut back down to 5000 or even 4000. Doesn't seem like you've changed anything about your body type. You're still an ectomorph.

The only reason my requirement right now is say 5000 cals is because I am working out hard! If I wanted to get to 30% body fat, it would be a snap, cuz all I would do is eat what I am now and not workout. Bingo! No exercise + too many calories = fat ass (and a changed body type). Not a hard concept.

and then all you'd have to do to lose your fat is cut back down to 5000 or even 4000. Doesn't seem like you've changed anything about your body type. You're still an ectomorph.

Well, yah, if I lost my fat again, then obviously my metabolism has changed back to being more efficient and thus I would no longer be fat or have that body type any longer. I would yes, be back to being an ectomorph, cuz I changed by body type by stripping the fat off and upping my metabolism. This is a given, so what is your point here?

[Todd]

Show me studies done that prove you can change your body type. I'd like to see them.

Look at the millions of cases where fat people have shedded the fat and become seriously lean....it happens every year around the world...don't need to show studies man, you KNOW it happens.

[Firehawk]

Yeah they didn't change their body TYPE though, they just changed their appearance. The same tendancies of the body are still there, the people just worked hard to fight those fat storing tendancies. But if they were to relax on their battle, the fat would come right back. It's not like an endo can convert his body to an ecto.

[Firehawk]

Originally Posted by Todd

The only reason my requirement right now is say 5000 cals is because I am working out hard! If I wanted to get to 30% body fat, it would be a snap, cuz all I would do is eat what I am now and not workout. Bingo! No exercise + too many calories = fat ass (and a changed body type). Not a hard concept.



Well, yah, if I lost my fat again, then obviously my metabolism has changed back to being more efficient and thus I would no longer be fat or have that body type any longer. I would yes, be back to being an ectomorph, cuz I changed by body type by stripping the fat off and upping my metabolism. This is a given, so what is your point here?

My point is once an ectomorph, always an ectomorph. You haven't changed a damn thing as far as that goes. You're still an ecto, a very built one, but you're still one. If you stopped eating or even backed off half of what you eat now then you'd eventually lose everything or most of it. You didnt' change your body type from ecto to meso...

Maybe when we refer to body TYPE you and me are talking about two different ideas.

[Todd]

Originally Posted by Firehawk

Yeah they didn't change their body TYPE though, they just changed their appearance. The same tendancies of the body are still there, the people just worked hard to fight those fat storing tendancies. But if they were to relax on their battle, the fat would come right back. It's not like an endo can convert his body to an ecto.

Um, yes they DID change their body type...they changed their metabolism and their body type. Someone who is say 300 pounds (fat), and then over time reduces themselves to a 185 pound lean machine is not going to have the same body type as when they were 300 pounds. Their metabolism has changed drastically, and therefore they do not possess the same body composition, shape or metabolic rate.

But if they were to relax on their battle, the fat would come right back. It's not like an endo can convert his body to an ecto.

What do you mean relax? If you mean by this that they stopped exercising regularly and started eating junkfoods all the time, then yah, of course they would go back to becoming a fat ass over time. That is the same for anyone of us though....if anyone eats above and beyond what their body uses for fuel, then you will become fat over time.

[Todd]

Originally Posted by Firehawk

My point is once an ectomorph, always an ectomorph. You haven't changed a damn thing as far as that goes.

Not true. You can change your metabolism, and therefore your body type.

You're still an ecto, a very built one, but you're still one. If you stopped eating or even backed off half of what you eat now then you'd eventually lose everything or most of it. You didnt' change your body type from ecto to meso...

Ok, if I simply ate tons and did not workout, then I would slow my metabolism down considerably and gain fat over time, because I would be taking in too many calories for what my body needs for fuel. With me so far? Ok, this would make me fat as hell over a lengthy period of time and my metabolism would be slow...very slow. My body type (and metabolism) would change - I would be fat.

Yes, if I stopped eating, then yes, I would lose my muscle mass. And yes, right now I am still ecto, because I have kept my metabolism running efficiently and I am still fairly lean right now, even tho I am putting on muscle.

[Todd]

Originally Posted by Firehawk

Maybe when we refer to body TYPE you and me are talking about two different ideas.

Endomorph

An Endomorph's biggest concern should be the losing of fat and adopting a lifestyle that keeps it off. Strength training should be done to get a better muscle to fat ratio and therefore improve metabolism. Use moderate weights at a fast training pace (very little rest between sets and exercises). You should lower your calorie intake (but not try to starve yourself) and should eat frequent but small meals. Sugars, sweets and junk food should be eliminated from your diet. Engage daily in some activity like brisk walking, biking, etc., and try to increase the amount of time you spend each week.

Mesomorph

A Mesomorph has a naturally fit body but to maintain it or improve it they should exercise and diet corretly for their type. Strength training can be done more often and for longer sessions then would be good for an Ectomorph, but you must still be carefull not to overdo it. You should train with moderate to heavy weighs and at a moderate pace, not resting too long between sets. You will find you gain muscle quite easy (some women and even men might not want to get too bulky, but this won't happen suddenly. When you are happy with your muscle size simply train to maintain it). Stick to a good healthy diet to keep you lean and muscular, and watch for any slow creeping fat gains. Engage in and enjoy aerobic activities, sports, etc. but do not overdo.

Ectomorph Ectomorphs should concentrate on gaining weight in the form of good lean muscle tissue (some women that are too thin may also want to put on a little fat to look more feminine). Weight training should be done but not too often or for too long each session. Weight should be fairly heavy and workout pace slower (longer rest periods between sets). Diet should be high in calories (good quality food not junk) and you should eat more then you're used to and often. Aerobic and other activities (sports, dancing, etc.) should be kept to a minimum, at least until you are happy with your weight and looks.

[Firehawk]

I know what those 3 body types are. What I'm trying to say is that you cannot convert the body's natural tendancies from one to the other. You can temporarily, TEMPORARILY speed up your metabolism, etc, but if you quit doing the things that sped it up then you will return to your endo self in no time. Same with an ecto, same with a meso. You are what you are. You can't permanently change what you are dude.

[.V.]

Dave, perhaps you can't. But the lifestyle changes are for life right? Once the fat is lower and the muscle is higher it gets easier to keep it off. It's no longer a struggle - unless you go back to old bad habits.

But, on the other hand - it might be possible to change it over time. In my younger days, I was a little fat - but really strong naturally. Whatever needed moved, if I could grip it, it would move. I built muscle easily - fat too. Then through years of not lifting except for work, no cardio, sitting on my butt getting fatter, eating wrong - I got really fat and couldn't lose weight. Then I started getting weaker all the time. Finally when I let the weakness get to the point I couldn't pick my big fat butt off of the floor, I opened my eyes and decided to make serious changes.

Now, I can lose fat easily. Problem is, I have a hard time building and keeping muscle. I'm sure the CNS problems contribute to it, but I believe the higher metabolism has to do with it too. I think when I start eating even more, the muscle gains will come easier.

My body has changed from naturally strong a little fat to weak and totally fat then to stronger with lower fat, and have to work to make muscle.

[Firehawk]

Well i see Todd's and your point Andy. I just have too few carbs in my body right now to continue discussing it lol...

Good discussion anyhow.

[Todd]

Originally Posted by Firehawk

I know what those 3 body types are. What I'm trying to say is that you cannot convert the body's natural tendancies from one to the other. You can temporarily, TEMPORARILY speed up your metabolism, etc, but if you quit doing the things that sped it up then you will return to your endo self in no time. Same with an ecto, same with a meso. You are what you are. You can't permanently change what you are dude.

Ok, so you can't change one's metabolism I guess right? Because you know....if you change your metabolism, your body will look different, take on different characteristics both physically and functioning wise. I guess what you are saying is that anyone who was obese or severely fat and lost a whole whack of fat to the point where they are now lean, that they have only changed their metabolism temporarily, and that they really are still the same person both metabolically and body type wise?

I bet there are people out there who would argue you up and down until they are blue in the face with what you just stated above.

but if you quit doing the things that sped it up then you will return to your endo self in no time.

Yah, but once you are there...once you have upped your metabolism, it is WAY easier for you to maintain it...that is what you are missing here! Once your body is running more efficiently (metabolism wise), it is easier to maintain. Unless you purposely sit on the couch, eat crap all day and totally fuccked up your diet and not train, then you would have no reason not to be able to easily maintain your new high metabolism. You act like it is an impossible act to achieve...and that is simply not the case. It is only a temporary thing if YOU make it one.

[Firehawk]

No i am not saying you can't change your metabolism. I'm saying an endomorph with a naturally slow metabolism, could, through exercise and proper diet, raise his metabolism. However if he reverted back to his old ways, his metabolism would drop back down, just like a true endomorph's metabolism is, that's what i meant by "temporary", and that's what I mean about the body type's natural tendancy. It's an endo's natural tendancy to want to have a slow metabolism, so even if that person worked hard to increase it, if they ever backed off their work ethic, it would just plummet again. There's no permanantly increased metabolism without the work behind it. They aren't just suddenly going to have a fast metabolism for the rest of their lives unless they work at it continuously, THAT IS, they will always be in a battle.

If you Todd, being a natural ectomorph, cut down on your calories, your metabolism will not drop. It'll stay up there. You'll just start to lose mass, just like a natural ectomorph. The changes you have made are only good until you stop working at it.

I think u are not understanding my points at all. I dont think anything is impossible, like i said 50 times in this thread, it's harder for some than others.

[Todd]

Originally Posted by Firehawk

No i am not saying you can't change your metabolism. I'm saying an endomorph with a naturally slow metabolism, could, through exercise and proper diet, raise his metabolism. However if he reverted back to his old ways, his metabolism would drop back down, just like a true endomorph's metabolism is, that's what i meant by "temporary", and that's what I mean about the body type's natural tendancy.

Well, yes, if one reverted back to old habits of unhealthy eating, and not enough exercise, then yes, your metabolism will therefore change to reflect that. That is true of anyone.

[Firehawk]

I have a headache Todd...thanks brother. LMAO