stronger but smaller with max-ot??

[rangers97]

I have been doing a max-ot type workout, following the principles and all for about a year now. While I have definitely seen an improvement in the weights that I can lift in that 4-6 rep range, what I have noticed is that I feel "smaller" physically than I used to. Now my weight is basically the same, give or take a few pounds, but my clothes feel a lot different...short sleeve shirts that used to be tight in the arms are now loose....shirts that showed my chest are now looser.

Is this possible, to appear to get stronger, but get smaller at the same time? I thought the goal of max-ot was more overload = muscles will get bigger in response....well, lets see, I am bench pressing 275 pounds now, whereas before I went to max-ot I could maybe do 225 tops, I can clost grip bench press 225 and incline press 225 now, all numbers I could not even approach in my other training, I work out each body part once per week, etc etc, so they have more than enough "rest", when I did bodyparts twice per week my old way, and I dunno, I just feel like I look smaller.

I feel somewhat strong, just smaller, has anyone else experienced this with max-ot?? Todd??

[Luca Brasi]

With max-ot, you are increasing your calorie burn much higher than a normal workout. If you don't increase the calories in your diet, you're going to lose weight.

[Todd]

Usually with strength gains, muscle size gains eventually follow, at least to some degree, so I have a hard time seeing how you've gained strength with no size gains, or even having LOST size....that doesn't add up.

Have you lost fat along the way?

I know since I started doing Max OT, the strength gains came first, and then the size came shortly behind the strength. The first two weeks to a month of beginning Max OT, all my lifts went up consistently during that time. Shortly after this is when I began to SEE the size gains, which were noticeable.

Unless you are not eating enough, which you have to make sure you are when doing an intense training protocal (such as MAX OT), I don't see how you can gain a lot of strength with zero to negative size gains. :confused:

What did your diet look like when you were doing Max OT? Were you super consistent with it? Did you take the 1 week breaks as scheduled every 8-9 weeks or so?

[Firehawk]

funny you mention diet consistency Todd.

Just today I had legs/abs workout to do. I missed my 10am meal and then I didn't get my 3pm meal in until 4:45. I worked out at 5pm. I felt less intense than I normally would most definitely. This past week i've not missed any meals at all and have noticed my intensity has returned. It's amazing how missing a meal, even if it's early in the day and you don't train until 2 or 3 meals later and many hours later, how it can affect your routine.

[Todd]

Originally Posted by Firehawk

funny you mention diet consistency Todd.

Just today I had legs/abs workout to do. I missed my 10am meal and then I didn't get my 3pm meal in until 4:45. I worked out at 5pm. I felt less intense than I normally would most definitely. This past week i've not missed any meals at all and have noticed my intensity has returned. It's amazing how missing a meal, even if it's early in the day and you don't train until 2 or 3 meals later and many hours later, how it can affect your routine.

Oh for sure...missing a meal is way worse than missing a workout. If you are training hard, and have your diet down to where you are eating every 2-3 hours per day, and then you go and miss a meal...even just one, you've interrupted your body's flow of expected (and needed) nutrient flow. Missing ONE meal alone can spin your body into a catabolic state. Your body and muscles are expecting and depending on a steady nutrient flow, and if you normally eat every 2-3 hours and miss a meal, then you've easily gone 4-6 hours without any nutrient consumtion for your muscles...that is a very long time. Keeping your body in a positive nitrogen balance is essential for steady growth and repair...when the chain is broken, so is your growth state.

I always try to make these 3 GOLDEN RULES FOR GROWTH a priority:

1) Don't miss a meal
2) Don't miss a workout
3) Don't miss a full night's rest

EDIT: 1 MORE VERY IMPORTANT RULE - Drink Plenty of water throuhout each day. Not being fully hydrated will easily affect your performance in the gym in a negative way.

Break any one of them, and you can be guaranteed that you will not see optimal results. Being consistent with the above rules are all that is needed for awesome muscle growth, but the ironic part of it is, most people will or do break one or more of these basic rules frequently.

[BLADE]

[quote=Todd]
I always try to make these 3 GOLDEN RULES FOR GROWTH a priority:

1) Don't miss a meal
2) Don't miss a workout
3) Don't miss a full night's rest

QUOTE]

Great post thanks.

[Axion]

Those are three things I baisically try to live by. I can't remember the last time I missed a day at the gym.

[Cort]

I can, damn school, damn work, damn ****ty gym hours.

[rangers97]

you know what, I can't honestly comment about the food thing. I know for sure that I am now a lot more conscious of my protein intake than I used to be, but I also think that I may be eating less in terms of total calories...Back when I thought I was "bigger" (read bigger, not fatter, I have never ever considered myself to be fat, just thought my arms, chest, etc, were bigger) I would eat pizza for dinner, eat 2 bagels for breakfast, etc, not really care about calories as long as there was a protein source there......now, I am much more aware of what I eat, I drink eas shakes for breakfast and post workout, take a protein drink right before bed, have some protein bars during the day, basically do the things you guys say to do, you know eat every 2-3 hours, smaller meals, etc. No more pizza for dinner, I will have chicken and rice, or a lean burger, or lean ground beef, and usually a turkey sandwich for lunch. So right now, I think the biggest difference I can say with eating is I am eating a lot more protein than I used to and am just watching more of what I eat......BUT.....how do I know if I am eating enough?? I guess it's just trial and error at this point? I just feel that, although this isn't really a measure of anything, but, if I can bench press 275 pounds, I just feel that I should be bigger, not smaller.......

but---can your muscles become more dense and have less size from this type of training? In other words, a harder, but smaller muscle, and would that weigh the same as the larger, less hard muscle, since like I said, my weight is kind of the same

sorry about the ramble, just very curious about this, thats all....

Caloric intake is the greatest factor in weight gain or loss. If the calories are not there, or are the wrong type, you won't get the results desired.

It sounds like you may have upped your protein at the expense of carbs. Contrary to the Atkins diet, carbs are good for you. They are necessary to build muscle.

Keep a food log for several days. This will give you an accurate picture of your daily caloric intake. From there you can make the necessary adjustments -- adding protein, fat, or carbs as needed.

[Todd]

Originally Posted by IronMan

Caloric intake is the greatest factor in weight gain or loss. If the calories are not there, or are the wrong type, you won't get the results desired.

It sounds like you may have upped your protein at the expense of carbs. Contrary to the Atkins diet, carbs are good for you. They are necessary to build muscle.

Keep a food log for several days. This will give you an accurate picture of your daily caloric intake. From there you can make the necessary adjustments -- adding protein, fat, or carbs as needed.

I agree with IronMan - Carbs ARE necessary for muscle growth, fuel, energy and optimal performace all around. It may just indeed be that you need more carbs in your diet, and not quite as much protein. For me, in the offseason when I am looking to pack on the muscle, I have found that the best way to do this is to not worry too much about calories in general, but just make sure that you do take in enough protein at each meal. Getting enough protein is key for each meal, but as well, you need to be getting enough carbs and then allow yourself some fats too which don't hurt.

Don't go overboard and feel like you can eat anything and everything in sight, but realize that taking in enough calories (protein, carbs and good fats) is essential to gaining optimal muscle growth from your intense training.

Do the food log thing like IronMan suggested, then you'll be able to easily see exactly how much protein, carbs and fats you are consuming, and you'll get a better idea of what you can do to improve things.

[Vas85]

Originally Posted by Todd

Usually with strength gains, muscle size gains eventually follow, at least to some degree, so I have a hard time seeing how you've gained strength with no size gains, or even having LOST size....that doesn't add up.

Have you lost fat along the way?

I know since I started doing Max OT, the strength gains came first, and then the size came shortly behind the strength. The first two weeks to a month of beginning Max OT, all my lifts went up consistently during that time. Shortly after this is when I began to SEE the size gains, which were noticeable.

Unless you are not eating enough, which you have to make sure you are when doing an intense training protocal (such as MAX OT), I don't see how you can gain a lot of strength with zero to negative size gains. :confused:

What did your diet look like when you were doing Max OT? Were you super consistent with it? Did you take the 1 week breaks as scheduled every 8-9 weeks or so?

I would have to agree with Todd, the only way what your explaining soudns logically possible is if you had say a higher bodyfat% and then after training under the MAX-OT principles you have reduced the bodyfat percentage, while maintaining the muscle, which is why you might feel like you are smaller? but it sounds wierd the way you put it.

You know that saying muscle is 3x heavier than fat