Super squats???

[Karl]

I have been following DC training, and it does include a 20 rep (widowmaker set) The thing is you don't do squats every workout, pick 3 exercises and rotate them. But on each you do a heavy set of 8 then drop down and do the 20 repper. The 20 repper seems to be effective

[Dan C]

The "10 rep max" that the routine calls for is 10 non-stop consecutive reps, meaning without excessive breaks in between each rep. To get 20 reps with your 10RM, you'll have to pace yourself and take these breaks.

And lets face it, there will be *some* break down of form as the set progresses. But that's part of the beauty of 20 rep squats, is how physically demanding it is. It calls upon not only your physical strength but your mental strength as well. Even while you're "resting", the bar is on your back weighing you down.

You need to be an advanced squatter before attempting this program. Only someone with experience in the squat rack is going to know how to power through a set like this while fatigued, hurting and out of breath. And you definitely want to do this in a rack or cage!

In Strossen's book "Super Squats" he outlines a program where the trainee does this 3 times a week with one or two other exercises in the workout and you're done. In my experience, you can't, nor will you want to do this routine even twice a week. It's hard enough once a week! Try it and tell us what you think.

[Vas85]

Originally Posted by luke.w

How low you going?

I'm talking about well below parallel, I did 9, and stood with the bar for awhile, I was actually pausing before this to pace myself (I wasn't attempting a 20repper eithier), and went down for 10 and came up doing a complete good morning.........not cool!!!!

It's easier when breaking parallel, most will go higher and higher the closer to 20reps, thats why when I read these 20rep challanges on the net, I always just take them posts with a gain of salt, unless theres video proof.
And I've already explained what I've witnessed, sounds like a really,really advanced way to train to me, and I won't be doing something like that every week, that hurts my knees thinking about it!!!!!!

Hey Luke, i did 285 for 14reps I found, it was usually my last set that I do for 10reps, but i did pause a little between each rep like 3seconds or so. Also i go well below parallel basically ass to grass or close to.

My legs right now are killling, a great feeling indeed to feel so much that when im walking downt he stairs in my house i feel like im almost going to collapse down them and keep going down faster and faster as i go along each step lol...

Pretty good. I also had two spotters, and I go to them i'm not scared if I feel like im about to faint or dizzy or anything, so that they know what i'm comfortable with and go and do as much as i can. Pretty taxing on my body, as I do lowerback before hand with DL's but I still found it a nice new change to throw in.

[Vas85]

Oh Dan, the only thing im rather curious on is, while I always use the cushion on the bar, the foamy type i think most have, I see like two little red strips of probably internal skin damage or something, I think it was from the bars pressure like on my traps near my shoulder area. Dont know exactly but also dont know what I can use to mitigate the red lines I get, A towel also?? on my back?

[Dan C]

I'd lose the cushion... you'll get used to having just the bar on your back after a while. I've never seen an advanced squatter using one of them... that's usually for beginners, or wussies

[Firehawk]

Yah a guy at the gym has a year round huge bruise on his back...heh. You do get used to it over time.

[Vas85]

Originally Posted by Dan C

I'd lose the cushion... you'll get used to having just the bar on your back after a while. I've never seen an advanced squatter using one of them... that's usually for beginners, or wussies

Hey!!! lol.. ive been squatting for a while with a cushion i'll give it a shot though, i guess will just take some getting used to.

[rufiedog]

Originally Posted by Dan C

The "10 rep max" that the routine calls for is 10 non-stop consecutive reps, meaning without excessive breaks in between each rep. To get 20 reps with your 10RM, you'll have to pace yourself and take these breaks.

And lets face it, there will be *some* break down of form as the set progresses. But that's part of the beauty of 20 rep squats, is how physically demanding it is. It calls upon not only your physical strength but your mental strength as well. Even while you're "resting", the bar is on your back weighing you down.

You need to be an advanced squatter before attempting this program. Only someone with experience in the squat rack is going to know how to power through a set like this while fatigued, hurting and out of breath. And you definitely want to do this in a rack or cage!

In Strossen's book "Super Squats" he outlines a program where the trainee does this 3 times a week with one or two other exercises in the workout and you're done. In my experience, you can't, nor will you want to do this routine even twice a week. It's hard enough once a week! Try it and tell us what you think.

I’ve saw Dan C’s 20 + rep squat video and was obviously impressed.

I think Dan is on another level than most. The big pauses between reps are something I’ve not seen before. Most of us are a long way away from handling that kind of focus and intensity for that long!

I saw a clip not to long ago of Tom Platz squatting 405 lbs for 26 reps (I think). While performing them he paused very little between reps (doesn’t make it right, just more consistent with how I’ve seen them preformed). Even he may have a problom holding the intensity for as long as Dan


When I do them I try and keep the cadence consistent-- just a couple seconds pause between reps (the idea _for me_ is to tax the endurance components of the muscle). It is surprising how much different a 20 rep squat feels after just coming off a 6 rep cycle—completely different (much more of a burn)

But most important (at least for me) no matter how intense your 20 reps session is, you will not get stronger by _only_ doing them. It takes the low volume stuff to make good gains on the high volume stuff, and vise versa. I’m always amazed at how well the two disciplines play on each other.



Dan

[DBZ Status]

pretty much the idea tigz is cause more pain then the human body can endure so u cant walk out of the gym lol

[maverick]

Originally Posted by Vas85

Hey!!! lol.. ive been squatting for a while with a cushion i'll give it a shot though, i guess will just take some getting used to.

Once you have enough plates on the bar, I don't think you need to worry about the wuss comments. That said, I ALWAYS use a bar pad. Its kinda one of those things that I never saw a point to "getting used to". Its not like you are gaining more from the exercise by causing bruises.

I love 20 rep squats. Well, as much as you can love them. Unless my groin is acting up (hurts if I go deep sometimes), I always do full squats. 225x20 was about as good as I ever got on those, but I'm hoping to pass it up once my groin heals. I agree wholeheartedly with dan though, its not for rookies. You need to know the squat really well. Try Bill Starr's linear 5x5 routine, you'll get acquainted with the squat REALLY quick!

[luke.w]

Originally Posted by maverick

Once you have enough plates on the bar, I don't think you need to worry about the wuss comments. That said, I ALWAYS use a bar pad. Its kinda one of those things that I never saw a point to "getting used to". Its not like you are gaining more from the exercise by causing bruises.

get enough weight on there and that pad will most likely be a PROBLEM, that bar should be glueed to your back, to keep from rolling, screwing up your form..............so soot yourself, if thats what you want, it ain't got nothing to with being a wuss for me.

[Dan C]

Luke brings up a good point about the pad causing problems with your form. The bar is more likely to roll/slide if not positioned properly in the groove between your traps and posterior delts, even more so if you squat with a "highbar" with the weight resting more on the top of the traps.

I was kinda joking about the wuss comment, but in a way I wasn't. I view the pad in the same light as the guy who wears gloves because deadlifting "hurts his hands" (Keen). If you can deadlift/squat an empty bar without pain or bruising, you can build up to the point where your 1RM neither causes pain or bruising.

As far as "gaining more" from the exercise without the pad, that is arguable. There are pressure receptors all over your body that tell your brain when something is too heavy to lift (in addition to other things). They are safety mechanisms to keep you from tearing your muscles off your bones. Our training serves to override these receptors, but we are capable of much more strength then we put out in the gym (e.g. the mother who lifts a car to save her child). By exposing ourselves to these extreme pressures, we loosen the restraints the receptors put on us. Pavel describes it as "removing the brick from under the gas pedal". This is along the same reason heavy lock outs are beneficial at increasing the full ROM strength in almost every lift.

[maverick]

I see what you guys mean, but I personally classify its impact as negligible. To this point, I've never had an issue with the bar rolling. I was, however, contemplating as I wrote my reply what you said in your last paragraph Dan. But again, to me, it seems an unnecessary addition of pain because I am not a competitor, I don't need to be overriding receptors. I'm not one to try and find that easy way through exercise, but this one just never made much sense to me. In my case, 225x20 is what makes me grow, not the presence or lack of a bar pad.

[luke.w]

Originally Posted by Dan C

I was kinda joking about the wuss comment, but in a way I wasn't. I view the pad in the same light as the guy who wears gloves because deadlifting "hurts his hands" (Keen). If you can deadlift/squat an empty bar without pain or bruising, you can build up to the point where your 1RM neither causes pain or bruising.

I pretty much see it the same way, you know me Dan

I do believe in building pain tolerance for everyday life though, I do believe dealing with the pain of the bar on the shoulders helps build pain tolerance for more than weightlifting............

Pain really is, weakness leaving the body!

and a quote for the fantasy chasers.............
"Pain don't hurt"- Dawlton- Roadhouse

[Firehawk]

Is it really building a tolerance to pain when dealing with the squat bar on your back, or is it more of the body adapting to the bar being there? I dont have any pain there anymore, doesn't mean though that my tolerance is higher does it? I dont know, maybe it does... I just think my body adapted and changed whatever it needed to change back there so that i no longer have any pain.

Mav i'm quite surprised to hear you have a problem squatting without a pad on your shoulders.