The race for the 1,000-pound bench press.

[pbody]

Originally Posted by DustinLati

Well what if in soccer they made a rule that every player could have a gun, and as soon as the game starts everybody starts killing eachother, and the last player alive can sit in front of the open goal and keep kicking the ball in the net over and over for 90 minutes. It would bring the game to a whole new level, with scores unheard of ever before, reaching into the 1000's (up from maybe 2 or 3). Thats pretty unfair, and even though its "not against the rules" its still cheating in my book.

Then I'd stop playing soccer. I'd just play "ghetto soccer" with whatever players I could find who wanted to play with the standard fifa 2004 rules. In no way would those playing your new killball sport be cheating- they presumably knew about the gun rules before they stepped on the field, they could have stayed home. I grant you this new rule change makes killball a very different sport than soccer. Really any rule change technically makes a different sport, how different depends on the specific rule changes (compare rugby and soccer, they have the same root).

This brings me to something the article, and Lee (good to see you around), both mention something I'd like to highlight. The technique involved shirt vs. raw seem quite a bit different, the results certainly are (comparing raw vs shirt world record). It seems fair to consider them essentially different events, though with quite a bit of crossover of course (compare squats and deads). It seems powerlifters also think this way as they do distinguish bench vs shirt world records.

To those who follow powerlifting more than me, are there plenty of raw competitions still around? Or do the top pros usually stick with gear?

[DaRkAnGel]

I'm done with this thread either way. I can't make people understand what they don't want to know.

[DustinLati]

like i said before, im speaking as an outsider to the sport, ive never even been to a comp and i dont know anything about them, but to me, anything that has any sort of "technology" to it like a shirt does, that allows you to lift more than you could without it, is cheating.

And I wouldnt consider straps when doing deads cheating because even though your grip isnt supporting 100% of the weight, your arms, back and legs still are. The straps dont support any of the weight, they just move the weight away from your hands.

Besides, none of the powerlifters here have even addressed the fact that (in the story in the first post) the guy was benching 890, and the weight wasnt even enough to make the weight touch his chest. You have no argument to that.

And I have a question, if you were in a comp with another guy, and you had a shirt and he didnt, and you beat the guy by like 20 pounds, do you honestly think that a week later you could beat that same guy without your shirt? If the answer is no, then your not stronger than the other guy, end of story.

Im not dogging the guys who wear shirts, because they can obviously still lift a lot of weight without one (way more than me) but youre not as strong as the shirt makes you want to believe.

[DaRkAnGel]

Originally Posted by DustinLati

like i said before, im speaking as an outsider to the sport, ive never even been to a comp and i dont know anything about them, but to me, anything that has any sort of "technology" to it like a shirt does, that allows you to lift more than you could without it, is cheating.

K obviously here we'll agree to disagree

And I wouldnt consider straps when doing deads cheating because even though your grip isnt supporting 100% of the weight, your arms, back and legs still are. The straps dont support any of the weight, they just move the weight away from your hands.

You're contradicting yourself, but that's besides the point...

Besides, none of the powerlifters here have even addressed the fact that (in the story in the first post) the guy was benching 890, and the weight wasnt even enough to make the weight touch his chest. You have no argument to that.

The tighter the shirt the harder it will be to make it touch your chest. Just because it doesn't go down all the way at 890 pounds does not mean that you would be able to bench it. The stretch reflex the shirt provides can be significant in a trained athlete(maybe it will add 200 pounds to an athlete like Mendelson or gene), but not 900 pounds good.

Shawn Latimmer at FI.com who has a bench of 800 + pounds has said, "You can not simply put a bench shirt on and add 50 or 100 pounds to your bench. A shirt requires technique, special training methods, and extensive practice"

And I have a question, if you were in a comp with another guy, and you had a shirt and he didnt, and you beat the guy by like 20 pounds, do you honestly think that a week later you could beat that same guy without your shirt? If the answer is no, then your not stronger than the other guy, end of story.

There is no such thing as guys without shirts competing with guys with shirts. There are shirted and non-shirted federations you are arguing here based on what you think you know to be true, not what is.

Im not dogging the guys who wear shirts, because they can obviously still lift a lot of weight without one (way more than me) but youre not as strong as the shirt makes you want to believe.

Something we can agree on.

[Jaster]

OK OK I have sat by and watch this thread turn upside down!! LOL
Now, I don't like shirts I hate the binding feeling. All my lifts a raw. The only help I get in a comp is chalk. The cops I lift in have split records Raw and bench.

Hmmmmmmm Some Baseball players use batting gloves and some don't.
I guess that is unfair too?

And

Originally Posted by pbody

I don't think equipment should ever give an edge in any sport. Everyone should have access to equivalent equipment of their competitors. It should be about the athlete, not their gear, that wins the competition. This goes for every sport. This is just my opinion, but I think it would suck to lose a powerlifting competition by a few pounds to a guy who had a higher quality (and presumably more expensive) bench shirt. Did you lose because he had a better shirt or because he's stronger than you? How could you ever know?

First off every lift does have access.
Let me put it this way if you are up for any world record then you better bring a shirt!! Also if you are going for anything that big you SHOULD already have a damn good bench shirt and know how to use it. This is another mistake. Lifters getting a shirt pulling it on and thinking his gonna lift more weight. Not happenin' unless he learns how to lift in a shirt.

[pbody]

They're less expensive than I had first thought, so my objection of availability isn't so strong anymore. I also wasn't considering anyone going for world records or pros. At the elite level I'd assume you have whatever you need.

Jaster, I recall you mentioning that in competition you wear a shirt if the other guys are going to, otherwise you go raw. Am I remembering correct? If so wouldn't you prefer raw competitions so everyone is on an equal footing (your prefered shirtless style)? Are there enough of these? Or do you compete raw against guys with shirts?

[Jaster]

I compete raw as much as pos.
Going into a meet most of the times you know who you have to beat and if they use shirts. That is when I make up my mind. I then train with a shirt for a shirt lift. I average around 1 shirt lifts to 3 shirtless a year.

[pbody]

A few more questions for you if you don't mind,

What are your maxes shirtless and raw (or just the relative difference)?

Do you think you could signifigantly improve your shirted bench by practicing the technique year round (even though you dislike it) and would this time devoted to the shirt take away from your raw score?

[Jaster]

My Max without a shirt is 512
With a shirt I have hit 530
I only post my raw numbers.
To answer your last question Yes I believe I could be better with a shirt. And yes I feel a big difference in technique that I would stay with raw benching.

[pbody]

Thanks for the response, I appreciate the info.

You know, I never really considered how much of a gap there would be between the raw and shirted world records. I had only read before that the record was pushing 1000 and hadn't really considered the use of a shirt. That the raw bench is "only" 713 makes your 512 that much more impressive on a global scale (though it was always incredibly impressive : )