Too much variation a bad thing?

[Dan C]

By "gains" are you referring to a personal record, or gains within the cycle?

[Firehawk]

What do you mean "within the cycle?"

[Dan C]

Cycling your weights/routines.

Let's say your best pull in a meet is 500, that's your personal record. If within your training cycle you are not, or have not surpassed your PR, than you're not truly "gaining". You might be gaining within the routine, building up to your peak strength, but if you stop early, you have not gained anything.

[Firehawk]

Well yea, you have not gained anything on your 3 lifts if that's the case. But you still hvae gotten stronger in maybe certain areas of the lift. Idea is to strengthen your weakpoints definitely.

But yes, in powerlifting, if you don't make gains on the big 3, then you really have not gained. I agree there.

I guess what i was getting at earlier, is I think progressive overload works, but i don't think it works for very long. You cannot continue to add 5 lbs a week to your lifts and expect your body not to adapt quickly. I think the body adapts very fast. Before i got into training like this, i would go about 3 weeks, maybe 4 and hit a wall. When i said "progress slows" i mean it basically stops. Of course, cutting makes it more difficult yet to make gains.

Why would you want to waste a training session when you know it is going to stop?

[Dan C]

Wasting the training session would be switching the routine prematurely when you could still milk it for TRUE gains. That's the moment of truth.

Besides there's no way to know "when it is going to stop" until it actually stops, and even then, one "bad" workout does not mean anything except you need to try harder next time. After that, then it's a time to take a look at your program, doesn't necessarily mean switch the exercises though.

And I'm not just talking about powerlifting but in PLing especially, you should always be working the 3 lifts.

[rbuchman]

Personnally I have two workouts at a time, I.e. for chest/tris I might have one consisting of BB bench, pushdowns etc and another consisting of DB incline, skull crushers etc. I workout out 3/4 days so I work the same muscles every 4 days and do the same lifts every 8. I completely change every 8 weeks or so. Seems to be the best of both worlds and lets you work a variety of moves at one time.

[rbuchman]

Originally Posted by Firehawk

A flat bench press to the chest is not the same as a 2-board bench press, or a floor press. A bench press with bands is another movement, a bench press with a board and a band is another movement. A bench press with a band and chain hanging on it is not the same as all the others. Just another way to train that's all.

Of course, diet is also a huge variable in this equation of many variables...

How's a chain (assuming there is still some on the floor at the top) different from a band (assuming Hookian resistance)?

Why do powerlifters do these seems like you'd want to train in the competition fashion as to not allow yourself to get weak at the bottom?

[JohnMatrix]

didnt realise I was gonna spark such a debate!

the reason that I got into changing my excerscies each week for my split routines was that I thought that I could 'shock' my muscles by hitting them with something new each week.

I think though as people have said there is a benefit in allowing your body to 'learn' these excercises for say 2-3 weeks, then switching.

As long as I get bigger n stronger! thats what Im aiming for

[LiftGirl]

I think that when a routine is getting "stale" it's as much mental as it is physical. I'm not saying you shouldn't change; the mental is an important aspect.

[Firehawk]

Originally Posted by rbuchman

How's a chain (assuming there is still some on the floor at the top) different from a band (assuming Hookian resistance)?

Why do powerlifters do these seems like you'd want to train in the competition fashion as to not allow yourself to get weak at the bottom?

The chain hits suddenly. It's hard to explain. The chains are closest to "real weight" but they have a very different feel than bands. ALso chains and bands used at the same time are different than just chains and just bands.

Those things help you in your sticking point. If you have trouble locknig a weight out in a raw bench, they'll help. But yea, if you compete raw, gotta stick with the stuff off your chest too.

[abarlament]

Originally Posted by JohnMatrix

didnt realise I was gonna spark such a debate!

the reason that I got into changing my excerscies each week for my split routines was that I thought that I could 'shock' my muscles by hitting them with something new each week.

I think though as people have said there is a benefit in allowing your body to 'learn' these excercises for say 2-3 weeks, then switching.

As long as I get bigger n stronger! thats what Im aiming for

There is a benefit, for people who require changing exercises. I think beginners or people who aren't very strong yet should stick with simple, basic routines until they aren't working anymore. That means squatting, benching, deadlifting, OHPing... the basics, and not much froo froo stuff.

[abarlament]

For Westside's rationale behind rotating exercises, try http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/ls16.htm <- this, and look for the 9th paragraph.

[Firehawk]

Good article man.

[Vas85]

Firehawk, i haven't yet in 3.5yrs of training gone backward in my lifts (lifting less not being able to lift) and i have been improving sometimes you get to plaeteus were you stall, but anything os able to be overcome, shorter/longer rest periods, more reps/sets, times a week you perform it, intensity.

[Firehawk]

Vas,

Please see the article on westside-barbell.com about the type of training that I use. The article is in the 2004 section called "The Conjugate Method". Let me know your opinions. Page 3 of that article I think goes into explaining it the best.



http://www.westside-barbell.com/articles.htm