weak biceps???

[leland_7]

hello all! this will be my first post so i hope i don't screw things up and get flamed. anyway here goes b/c i really need some advice. two questions:

i've been lifting for quite some time now so i like to think i kinda know my way around but i have a problem. it just seems like my biceps keep falling behind.

it just like after my first couple of sets they hit muscle failure or something. i just don't get it. they go pretty much dead and i have to drop significant weight just to finish the workout. this doesn't happen with any of the other muscles in my body so i just have to be doing something wrong. any thoughts?
.....also,...... in terms of upright rows.......are they necessary if you're doing Dumbell Lateral Raises and
Dumbell Front Raises ????

thx for any help!!!

[tim_mcf]

You're not likely to get flamed around here, Dude...Sometimes people get on others for saying stupid stuff, but it's not a flame - we're pretty good about that.

You should post up specifically what your routine consists of if you want relevant and specific advice. Without knowing what you do to your biceps, we can't help.

I would say that db lateral raises and front raises are unneccessary if you're doing rows (and overhead presses), rather than the other way around. The front / side raises are isolation exercises, and you shouldn't favor them over compound movements. Keep the rows, chuck the raises.

[LiftGirl]

Well, the biceps are a relatively small muscle in comparison to other, larger muscles, so maybe you are simply expecting too much out of them? A lot of back exercises also hit the bis hard, so if you are doing back exercises first (and you should be) then the bis will already be pretty tired. I know mine are!

Like tim said, we could give you better advice if you listed out your whole routine.

P.S. If you ever feel like you have gotten flamed, please bring it to either my attention or the attention of one of the other mods. We are here to make this a comfortable place for everyone!

[leland_7]

Mon. (chest/triceps)
flat bench 4x
incline 3x
flies 3x
decline 3x
dips 3x
tricep push-down 2x
tricep ext 2x

Wed. (back/biceps)
dead lift 3x
pull-ups or lat pull downs 3x
cable row 2x
bent row 2x
chainsaw 2x
stand curl 3x
reverse curl 3x
dumbell curl 3x

Fri/Sat (legs/shoulders)
squats or lunges 4x
calves 3x
leg ext 3x
leg curls 3x
military 3x
lat raise 3x
front lat raise 3x
shrugs 3x

some cardio on the off days. i really not looking to become the next arnold,...just to stay fit and toned. thx guys.

oh and i meant to say Liftgirl,.. you maybe onto something with working them too much? i know everyone is not created equal but it's just that i see other guys doing it and curling much more weight and for longer periods of time so i'm just thinking why am i lacking.

[tim_mcf]

Working them too much, definitely. If your pullups and rows are heavy enough, you don't even really need to do a single curl. Three varieties of curls are absolutely overkill, and could well be causing you to stagnate.

[WESTY]

over training a muscle is never good, definitly try dropping a excersize and see how you go.

[mesomorph]

As liftgirl suggests, your bis are fried because you're doing a back/bi combo with a big and presumably heavy emphasis on your back (and rightly so!)

But leland 7 mate,your primary concern was that your "biceps keep falling behind" If that is a continuing prob for you, then you must change your workout to put a little more focus on the lagging body part eg do a chest/bi day instead, drop a back exercise like pullups and by merely altering the grip (palms in) make it an excellent mass building bicep exercise, alternate starting exercise on your back/bi day (maybe start with bis on some of those days) perhaps even have a dedicated arm day!!

As far as upright rows are concerned there are slight differences on the affected bodypart depending on your lifting style. If you take the bar up to just below the chest then the stimulus seems to be more on the trapezius (I like this because you can work heavy!) whereas if you lighten the weight and take the bar higher (collarbone) it seems to work the delts. If you do the latter then lateral raises would be superfluous as delts are already hit.

[leland_7]

so basically i'm seriously overworking my biceps really before i even get to them and then it just gets worse from there? makes sense to me b/c that is how i feel for sure.

so as tim_mfc suggested, i'm doing compounding exercises early on that really taxes my biceps. cool. now i gotta do some modifications. so if you guys don't mind i, of course, have a few more questions:

1....can someone list or post a link that shows compund exercises in relation to what i'm doing already? this way i can start trimming down excercises i don't need.

2....and also,.... what am i missing that i should add? am i overworking my triceps as well?

mesomorph,.. thx for the advice. such a simple piece of advice that i will def. do. it had crossed my mind but i was always afraid i would run out of gas and not be able to execute my pull-ups/pull downs. i should just give it a try though. everything i read says to alternate so as to plateau.

[LiftGirl]

Originally Posted by leland_7

1....can someone list or post a link that shows compund exercises in relation to what i'm doing already? this way i can start trimming down excercises i don't need.

2....and also,.... what am i missing that i should add? am i overworking my triceps as well?

www.exrx.net has a great breakdown of exercises by muscle, descriptions and even videos.

If you must do curls, then 3 sets of one curl exercise is plenty, and the same for tris. As tim said, you can skip them all together. I've never seen a guy with a big deadlift or row with puny bis.

[.V.]

Agreeing with the others. Drop the isolation work and stick with the compounds.

When I finally got rid of most of my isolation - I do 3 sets per week of bis and tris specifically, all else is big compound movements like bench, row, deadlift, squat, pullups...
I finally started making some progress.

[Mr VW]

Originally Posted by leland_7

chainsaw 2x

What are chainsaws??

[.V.]

One more thing to think about.

When doing pullups (or lat pulldowns - kind of the same movement) how much weight are you moving? When you are doing rows how much weight are you moving?

Both of these work the biceps pretty well and probably with a lot more than you can curl.

Same goes for overhead pressing and bench press when looking at the tricep work.

[leland_7]

Originally Posted by Mr VW

What are chainsaws??

you know where you're bent over a flat bench and pulling a dumbbell from the floor up to your chest. maybe the correct terminology is "cranking the lawnmower"?

Liftgirl thx for the site. that should help me quite a bit.

[leland_7]

Originally Posted by a_welch503

One more thing to think about.

When doing pullups (or lat pulldowns - kind of the same movement) how much weight are you moving? When you are doing rows how much weight are you moving?

Both of these work the biceps pretty well and probably with a lot more than you can curl.

Same goes for overhead pressing and bench press when looking at the tricep work.

i'm 6'4" 235. for lat pull downs if i remember correctly i'm doing like 165/170 3 x 8? for rows its like 145 3 x 8.

the more and more i discuss and analyze this i just keep saying to myself "no wonder". i'm really going to have to tinker with my workout plan.

[tim_mcf]

you know where you're bent over a flat bench and pulling a dumbbell from the floor up to your chest. maybe the correct terminology is "cranking the lawnmower"?

lol...I always thought it was a "dumbell bent-over row"