What am I doing wrong?

[lucky luke]

I am on the Max-Ot cutting phase but I feel I lose muscle faster than fat. I shrink, but muscles don't show off... I am doing something wrong but couldn't figure out what... Everything looks perfect to me...

Training: 5-day split max-Ot
Mon: Chest and forearms (12.00) - 16 min Max-Ot Cardio (19.00)
Tue: Legs - No cardio
Wed:BAck and traps(12.00)- 25 minutes of moderate intensity walking (19.00)
thu: shoulders and tri (12.00) - no cardio
Fri: Biceps and Abs (12.00) -25 minutes of moderate intensity walking (19.00)
Sat: 16 min Max-Ot cardio (19.00)
Sun: 25 minutes of moderate intensity walking (19.00)

I gradually increase the weights every week (I swear that!!)

Nutrition: p c f

100G Light Kasar Cheese 27 1 10
125 G WHOLEGRAIN BREAD 16 50 2


(pre and post workuot shake:
I drink half of it immediately before,
half of it immediately after workout)
3 SCOOP ON WHEY 69 9 4.5
2 scoop Weider Weight Gainer 17 60 2
SKIM MILK 200 ML 7 6 0


150 gr patoteos 3 30 0
150 G CHICKEN BREAST 45 0 4
200 G YOGHURT 10 14 2


1 banana 1.5 31
2 white 1 whole egg 14 0 2
200 g yoghurt 10 12 1

(Post cardio)
1 SCOOP WHEY 23 3 1.5
100 ml milk 3.5 4 0

100 gr ground beef 30 0 2

(before bed)
3 egg whites 12 0 0
200 ml skim milk 7 7

total: 295 g protein, 227 g carbs, 31 g fat= 2367 calories

I am now 180 cm, 165 lbs with %12.2 bodyfat (age:28)

Supplementation:
10 grams of creatine
15 grams of glutamine
1000 mg vitamin C
Multivitamin (Solgar VM 75)
Co enzyme Q 10


8.5-9 hours of uninterrupted sleep everynight ( I swear that too!!!)

I am waiting your comments...

Thank you

[pseudonym]

dude where's your carb ???

Dunno much about 'cutting cycles' (never have and probably never will do one ) but in my head it's no wonder you're losing muscle since you're just not putting in enough other energy sources for your body.

Nutrition 101 (as taught by me, a completely unqualified, very skinny man )
The body has 3 sources of energy, carbohydrate, fat and muscle.

if your body has no carbohydrate (because you are not putting any into it) it will feed on its fat or muscle stores, it's only a matter of time until there is not enough fat left to munch on and it turns catabolic on itself. In fact I have read articles that suggest your body, in times of high physical stress with low/absent energy input, will consume muscle first because it transforms into energy faster than fat in a pinch.

Either way I rekon you need to get a fair bit more carb in that diet, particularly post cardio (simple carbs, sugars and the like are good - in moderation obviously) and pre workout (some complex carb an hour or two before hand).

Like I said I have no experience with 'cutting' and will stand corrected on any of the above, but it has always been my policy to keep my daily carb intake well above my protein and fats. I'm 143lbs for for me a good day nutritionally is p140g c250g f50g.

P.S. obviously keep your carbs 'clean' if you're trying to loose fat.

[lucky luke]

Originally Posted by pseudonym

dude where's your carb ???

You mean 227 grams of carbs is not enough??? Maybe you missed it I take 227 grams of corbs everyday

[pseudonym]

heh heh heh yeah mis-read your numbers at the bottom and thought you were taking 30g!! heh heh my bad

still rekon that could be bumped up a little, depends on your body type. For me I need to be taking close to double my protein in carbs every day (if not more) to maintain my weight. I'm not cutting though.

I'd wait out until one of the real nutrition gurus gives this a look-in. :

[threenorns]

you're not eating enough.


if you're moderately active, you need round about 2700 calories per day; if you're very active, you need about 3000 - 3100.

[maverick]

He's got similar dimensions to me (6'0", 164 lbs.) and I took in about 2300 cals/day on my cut, I'd say your calories aren't the problem. Perhaps you're counting your calories wrong. Things like potatoes and meats are easy to make more than you think of. Be sure you measurements of those portions are accurate.

Why are you taking weight gainer on a cut?!

Do NOT drink milk with your PWO shake because it will slow the absorption of protein. During a calorie restricted diet this is critical for maintaining your muscle mass, that window of time after your workout. I would split those 3 scoops into one prior to your workout and 2 after. Make sure you are getting the bulk of your carbs in the morning and around your workout. It doesnt appear like thats the case now.

You have lots of milk, which isn't altogether bad, but thats a lot of lactose sugar on a cut. You need more green leafy vegetables (which should make up the bulk of your carbs after you PWO shake) and low-glycemic carbs. Check the stickies in the Nutrition section for examples.

A final note, you may wanna try some interval training like guerilla cardio to shake up the fat loss from cardio. I'm not familiar with Max-OT cardio, but guerilla cardio did wonders for me.

[abarlament]

What are you using to monitor fat loss (and hence, LBM loss)?

[Todd]

You've lost muscle weight because you did not lower your calories gradually enough over time. Or you have upped your cardio too much...either way it comes down to you are expending TOO MANY calories for what you are taking in, and your body is turning to your muscles for fuel, not what you want. You want a SLIGHT calorie deficit, not a major one. Try upping your calories by 150 or 200 and then see what happens, and go from there.

To ensure you are not losing muscle, get to the point where your body is only losing 1-2 pounds of body weight per week, anymore than this and you are losing lean muscle.

Hope this helps some.

[lucky luke]

Originally Posted by maverick

He's got similar dimensions to me (6'0", 164 lbs.) and I took in about 2300 cals/day on my cut, I'd say your calories aren't the problem. Perhaps you're counting your calories wrong. Things like potatoes and meats are easy to make more than you think of. Be sure you measurements of those portions are accurate.

These are "cooked" weights of potatoes and meat. So I weigh everything I eat and I am sure the calories are OK

Originally Posted by maverick

Why are you taking weight gainer on a cut?!

I use weight gainer to get fast acting carbs for per and post workout

Originally Posted by maverick

Do NOT drink milk with your PWO shake because it will slow the absorption of protein.

You are right here. I will ditch all the lactose from my diet.

Originally Posted by maverick

I would split those 3 scoops into one prior to your workout and 2 after.

That's exactly what I was doing

Originally Posted by maverick

A final note, you may wanna try some interval training like guerilla cardio to shake up the fat loss from cardio. I'm not familiar with Max-OT cardio, but guerilla cardio did wonders for me.

I am doing kind of guerilla cardio when I meant MAX-Ot cardio. maybe this is the reason I lost too much muscle. It was too early for me to begin intensive cardio like this.

[lucky luke]

Originally Posted by abarlament

What are you using to monitor fat loss (and hence, LBM loss)?

Mirror I barely look at the mirror and see I shrink but I can't see definition

[lucky luke]

Originally Posted by Todd

You've lost muscle weight because you did not lower your calories gradually enough over time.

nope. I never lowered calories. 2400 calories were for bulking when I started max-OT. I started cutting without dropping calories to PREVENT MUSCLE LOSS. But It didn't worked!

Originally Posted by Todd

Or you have upped your cardio too much...

Yeah this could be the reason. but I didn't think four times of cardio a week would be too much for me!!! What should I do now? Increase calories or cut some cardio. Anyway, maybe it's a prejudgement but I feel that HIT cardio eats my muscle

Originally Posted by Todd

Try upping your calories by 150 or 200 and then see what happens, and go from there.

I'll Give it a try

[threenorns]

it's very frustrating when ppl come on and ask for advice, only to rebut and challenge the advice given.

your calories are NOT "perfect" or even "ok". you are not feeding your muscles adequately for growth. dropping milk from your diet is going to lower your protein intake and you'll get even less results.

i suggest you take a peek at todd, then listen to his advice - todd, by the way, is an ectomorph, what is known as a "hard gainer":

Todd's pics

[Todd]

Originally Posted by lucky luke

nope. I never lowered calories. 2400 calories were for bulking when I started max-OT. I started cutting without dropping calories to PREVENT MUSCLE LOSS. But It didn't work!

So perhaps now you are simply not giving your body enough clean calories to maintain the muscle you do have. In other words, your activity level has risen (more cardio), so now, your body is in a calorie deficit....too much of one, which is now causing your body to go after your hard-earned muscle for fuel. So, either cut back the number of cardio sessions per week, or up your daily calorie intake by a little...or do both....until you find that you are losing only 1-2 pounds per week. Then, you can be sure you are losing fat, and not much (if any) lean muscle.

This could be the reason. but I didn't think four times of cardio a week would be too much for me!!! What should I do now? Increase calories or cut some cardio. Anyway, maybe it's a prejudgement but I feel that HIT cardio eats my muscle.

Like I said above, you can pick either one, or do both...either increase calories or cut back a little with the cardio frequency, or both, whatever is going to enable you to lose 1-2 pounds per week only.

4 HIT cardio sessions per week isn't too much (for anyone), unless you are not fueling your body adequately to support your activities...and this is what's happening here with you. So you have to adjust. Simple as that.

[lucky luke]

Originally Posted by threenorns

it's very frustrating when ppl come on and ask for advice, only to rebut and challenge the advice given.

sorry but I didn't want to challenge or rebut anything. Far from it, I will execute your advice about lactose intake. Maybe it is my mistake, my English is not good enough to express myself. I meant my calorie counting (calculations) is true not the amount of calories I should take...

and ofcourse if I ditch lactose from my diet I will replace it with something else like eggs or chicken

Sorry again and thank for your advices... :

[lucky luke]

Originally Posted by Todd

So perhaps now you are simply not giving your body enough clean calories to maintain the muscle you do have. In other words, your activity level has risen (more cardio), so now, your body is in a calorie deficit....too much of one, which is now causing your body to go after your hard-earned muscle for fuel. So, either cut back the number of cardio sessions per week, or up your daily calorie intake by a little...or do both....until you find that you are losing only 1-2 pounds per week. Then, you can be sure you are losing fat, and not much (if any) lean muscle.



Like I said above, you can pick either one, or do both...either increase calories or cut back a little with the cardio frequency, or both, whatever is going to enable you to lose 1-2 pounds per week only.

4 HIT cardio sessions per week isn't too much (for anyone), unless you are not fueling your body adequately to support your activities...and this is what's happening here with you. So you have to adjust. Simple as that.

OK maybe it is all about I am too impatient too see results. It will take time to adjust my optimum caloric intake/activity level balance...

Thank all of you guys for your advices... I will let you know with the results
: