What rep set range???

[Hulkeye]

So i have been doing my current routine for about 8 weeks now, 4 days a week, about 4 exercizes a day, 4 sets of 6 for most. 4 sets of 4 for heavy stuff like squat and dead. This has been a great few weeks, this routine has given me more responce in muscle growth and fat loss than any routine i have ever used. i do however feel its time to move on, so my question is, whats next?

i have tried them all so im bound to have to use a rep/set scheme that i have already used. im not looking to cut, more to gain, so i want to keep it heavy. i was thinking 5x5 but that seems like alot. Does 5x5 include warm-up sets? If so, how do the warm up sets work?

My current warm up consists of 5 sets, and is only done once for the day. For example, on one day i do:
BB Flat Bench
Dips
Arnold Press
Clean to Front Squat
and some small ab work...

My warm up for that routine would be a bench press warm up, i would do 12 reps bar, 10 reps bar, 6 reps with 25lbs, 3 reps with 35, 1 rep with 45, then i would start my 4x6 at 80 - or - 45 and 35 without counting the olympic bar.
i hope that made sense

To sum this up, im looking for a new rep/set scheme to use for heavy lifting. i want something that does not include warmup sets as the way i warm up now works great for me. Any ideas or suggestions would really be appreciated. Thanks!

[.V.]

You can do 5x5 one of two ways:

Way#1: warmup first then do five sets of five reps with your working weight.

Way#2: The last set is your heaviest weight for the day and each of the preceding sets is approximately 12.5% lighter than the one after it. No need to warm up this way because you are ramping the weight up each set.

[Hulkeye]

using flat bench as an example, in a 4x6 scheme, the most weight i could do for 4 sets of 6 is 170. thats 6 reps, 6 reps, 5 to 6 reps, and 4 to 5 reps at 170lbs. once i reached 6 reps for all 4 sets, i would go up in weight.

with way #2 of 5x5, your saying my last set of 5 reps should be 170, and each set before than should be approx. 12.5% lighter? with no warm up?

am i reading that right? have you had success with this before?

and are their any other rep/set schemes you can recommend for heavy lifting, id like to see if anyone has one i havent tried.

and thanks for the great info, your very informative and i appreciate the accurate responces from you and everyone on the site!

[Khaine]

Originally Posted by Hulkeye

with way #2 of 5x5, your saying my last set of 5 reps should be 170, and each set before than should be approx. 12.5% lighter? with no warm up?

am i reading that right? have you had success with this before?

Yes, the preceding 4 sets ARE warm-up/acclimation sets... The final set is supposed to be a PR each time... You go all out, and always try to improve weight or reps at this set... It's worked great for me while building back up, because it gets you in that competitive mindstate, rather than just going through the motions with easy sets, waiting for them to get hard... I'm also not as careful with them as I was when I followed the 5x5 Program... If I NAIL the heavy set and feel good, I might up the weight and go for another max...

It's more of a strength scheme tho; seeing as how there's only one proper working set, there's not much mass from this set alone... I supplement it with higher rep sets of different exercises for hypertrophy...

Originally Posted by Hulkeye

and are their any other rep/set schemes you can recommend for heavy lifting, id like to see if anyone has one i havent tried.

I used to have great success with (my own?) 6-4-2 for strength... Stopped using it for some reason or other 18 months back and just came back to it for some of my supplemental lifts... Great for linear strength improvement...

There's also the 6-1-6-1, which I admittedly haven't tried yet, although I have some faith in the post-tetanic facilitation theory...

10x3 is great, but time consuming... Definintely to be limited to a single focus lift...

[Hulkeye]

can you tell me more about your 6-4-2? how did you adjust the weight? how did you do with other working sets afterwards? were you able to do more, or was this enough to exhaust the muscle for good?

also the 6-1-6-1. how do you adjust the weight for this, by percentage? using say 210 as a one rep max, can you give me an example of how this would work?

[Khaine]

The 6-4-2 is very straightforward; you perform the required number of sets, rest two minutes, add 5-10lbs (depending on the exercise) and repeat... If you can get an extra rep on any set, do it... Next workout, kick the weight up a level, so you do 6-7 reps with the weight you did 4-5 with last time, and so on...

I'm not quite sure why it seems to work so well for me (when I first experimented with it, I assumed it was due to 'the muscle adapts to the last weight used', but I've since learned that this statement is mostly bunk), but it does let you handle and control consistently heavier weight while limiting volume, which is always great for strength...

Back then, I was still working splits, and performed 6-4-2 for all my muscle groups, usually 3-4 exercises for big ones, and 2 for small ones (i.e. Chest: DB Press, Incline DB Press, Weighted Dips - Back: Deadlift, Weighted Chins, DB Rows, Cable Rows)... I would probably have altered that if I were to work it into a split routine now, possibly placing the final exercise in a hypertrophy zone (10-15 or max reps or whatever) to prevent neural burnout... Not that I ever experienced that, but as you get more neurally efficient, it's prudent to be more careful with the volume of heavy work...

Take note tho, I gained next to no weight doing this (most likely because I didn't know how to eat, but still) and didn't see much muscular development apart from a 'harder' look...

Now, I use 6-4-2 for a couple auxiliary exercises, because my vertical push/pull is sorely lacking, but not the main focus of my training... It still works tho, and I'm pressing bodyweight overhead at this point (milestone stuff for me)...

As for the 6-1-6-1, I'll just link you to the original article, as I have no personal experience with the program itself... Post-tetanic facilitation is definitely real tho... Charles Poliquin has a great reputation as well, although GVT did nothing for me personally...

TESTOSTERONE NATION - The 1-6 Principle

[.V.]

Hulkeye, I just described what I'm currently doing and answered your 5x5 question. It does work, but then again so does about everything else. You can also look into something like Max-OT or HST if you are looking purely for size. For a more thorough description of what I've alluded to, take a look at the "HSST.." thread. It's working for me. But it's not a "real" workout with a name and tons of science to back it up. It's just something I made up based on the work of others who actually knew what they were doing...I'm still learning.

[SouthWind]

lol