Yes, a tangent from an existing thread,...

[Merrida]

I'm new to CrossFit, so I'm learning more about it and finding it fascinating. In another thread someone brought up behind the head maneuvers. Throughout that thread and the ones I could come up with, I still did not see an answer that seemed to satisfy my personal curiosities and starting a new thread seemed logical. If Admin wishes to relocated it, I can understand.

Everything we've been taught, and are taught to teach, is no behind the head. Since I began lifting "back in the day" it was common to do behind the head military presses or pull downs. I can even see with very good muscle awareness, it should be safe,...IF you avoid the common mistakes, like the pigeon neck and torso shifting,....I can see lots of ways this can be dangerous. But, I can see lots of ways they can be beneficial, especially since I can count the number of people I end up with who have extremely limited shoulder mobility and it gets worse because they're afraid to do anything to help increase mobility.

Questions:

My questions would be: If I've got someone who, when doing an overhead press, can only angle them roughly 10-20 degrees forward and there's no way on this earth they can even get above their crown (attempts to do so "hurt them" in the neck and back and they won't even gingerly try, or if they do, they compensate in dangerous ways). How do we get past that?

How do I explain to someone behind the neck movements can be done safely for mobility purposes (a few of my clients come to mind) when I know they're going to have other trainers come up to them when I'm not there telling them to NEVER go behind the neck. That type of contradiction affects training compliancy.

I tried the dowel movement, holding it in front of me and raising it over my head and back to my butt.....and while at first I thought it was crazy, after about 7 reps, my shoulders freed up and felt wonderful. In fact, my achey shoulder has been feeling better since doing it (but the shoulder that didn't ache that was usually my problem shoulder, is acting up).

But I found that experience interesting, and I can say that because I've done it.

How would you (a) explain these things to a client, (b) deal with it when other trainers WILL approach these clients doing warm up exercises and tell them how dangerous what they're doing is, and (c) how to handle any resultant aches or irritations that result if they have a hard time performing this.

My questions are more complex than the thread that initiated the behind the head movements,.....ergo: New Thread. Thanks all.

I perform the dowel movement at least 4 days a week. It is normally one of the first movements I do to wake up my shoulders as I train early in the morning, and I am a newbie devoting my training time as of late to the Olympic lifts (and I am a middle-age man or an old man to many here). I have substantially improved my shoulder range of motion as a result and recently performed 3 sets of 8 reps of behind-the-neck wide grip pullups, feeling very comfortable doing so. And I'm becoming increasingly comfortable performing overhead squats and squat snatches, both of which require very good shoulder flexibility.

To answer your questions:

How would you (a) explain these things to a client, I would merely make statements of fact based on your own personal experience and let the client decide if they want to accept your statements as an "explanation" (b) deal with it when other trainers WILL approach these clients doing warm up exercises and tell them how dangerous what they're doing is, tell these trainers to mind their own business and leave your clients alone and you'll do the same and (c) how to handle any resultant aches or irritations that result if they have a hard time performing this share with your clients your own experiences with your own aches and pains and assure them it is a sign of their body being subjected to new and unfamiliar demands which it will eventually adjust to. That has been my personal case once I started the Olympic lifts. I was beginning to wonder if it was worth it, but my body is finally slowly adapting and I believe I'm better off as a result of subjecting it (my body) to the new challenges I was putting it through.

[Merrida]

Other than telling other trainers not to butt in, I shall do what you recommend. Very often due to the high volume of trainers we have (25) in one club, not every trainer knows who is and is not working with a trainer, and we're pushed HARD to intervene and "correct" people who are performing incorrect exercises. I don't partake in that because in my experience, different people do things different ways for different reasons.

I have back issues, so I may do exercises I instruct my clients not to do. I have good muscle awareness and again, may do things I tell them not to. Some exercises are working around injuries or a person's past,....and while no trainer (no other trainer) knows this about my client/s who have issues, I need to perhaps clarify more with my client (than alienate myself from 24 other trainers) and remind them that "some other trainers may not understand 'why' we are doing this" and prepare them for the potential intrusion.

[Dan C]

Originally Posted by Merrida

I'm new to CrossFit, so I'm learning more about it and finding it fascinating. In another thread someone brought up behind the head maneuvers. Throughout that thread and the ones I could come up with, I still did not see an answer that seemed to satisfy my personal curiosities and starting a new thread seemed logical. If Admin wishes to relocated it, I can understand.

Everything we've been taught, and are taught to teach, is no behind the head. Since I began lifting "back in the day" it was common to do behind the head military presses or pull downs. I can even see with very good muscle awareness, it should be safe,...IF you avoid the common mistakes, like the pigeon neck and torso shifting,....I can see lots of ways this can be dangerous. But, I can see lots of ways they can be beneficial, especially since I can count the number of people I end up with who have extremely limited shoulder mobility and it gets worse because they're afraid to do anything to help increase mobility.

Questions:

My questions would be: If I've got someone who, when doing an overhead press, can only angle them roughly 10-20 degrees forward and there's no way on this earth they can even get above their crown (attempts to do so "hurt them" in the neck and back and they won't even gingerly try, or if they do, they compensate in dangerous ways). How do we get past that?

You don't get past that. You stick to whatever pressing movements they are comfortable with and you leave the rest to flexibility and (unweighted) mobility work.

How do I explain to someone behind the neck movements can be done safely for mobility purposes (a few of my clients come to mind) when I know they're going to have other trainers come up to them when I'm not there telling them to NEVER go behind the neck. That type of contradiction affects training compliancy.

Just explain to them beforehand how behind the neck movements are somewhat taboo in the industry and to not be surprised if someone says something to them. If your explanation was good enough as to why they are doing them, other peoples opinions should roll right off them.

How would you (a) explain these things to a client, (b) deal with it when other trainers WILL approach these clients doing warm up exercises and tell them how dangerous what they're doing is, and (c) how to handle any resultant aches or irritations that result if they have a hard time performing this.

As for (C), I'd stop doing the movements completely. Aches and irritations are a sign that your body does not agree with the movement. Find another way if your *client* is concerned about shoulder mobility. Your client's concern being the thing to keep in mind here.

[Merrida]

Originally Posted by Dan C

Just explain to them beforehand how behind the neck movements are somewhat taboo in the industry and to not be surprised if someone says something to them. If your explanation was good enough as to why they are doing them, other peoples opinions should roll right off them.



As for (C), I'd stop doing the movements completely. Aches and irritations are a sign that your body does not agree with the movement. Find another way if your *client* is concerned about shoulder mobility. Your client's concern being the thing to keep in mind here.

Which is what I'd do common sense. I have clients very interested in shoulder mobility so they feel as "stuck" as I do

I've showed the dowel exercise to four clients today, and after the colour returned to their faces, they tried it and all agree it feels good. I also did my forewarning up front that they will quite likely get approached by a trainer, blah blah blah, and you're right, it rolled off because I'm the one they trust not a random trainer who doesn't know them. I had no problem there like I thought I might. Our club is highly competitive and rather famous for trainers butting in to plant seeds of doubt.