Zottman Exercise

[Dan C]

Anyone ever heard of this? May have also been referred to as a Zottman Curl. Very old school. I tried this exercise for the first time yesterday and for someone who is not a big fan of curling, I must say that I was impressed.

Here's how it's performed:

With a pair of dumbbells you're going to do a single arm curl. As you reach the top you're going to pronate your hand so the palm faces down and you do a reverse curl for the eccentric portion of the movement. The concentric portion of the other hand begins as you start the descent on the opposite hand... as one hand goes up, the other goes down.

Looking deeper into why someone would want to do this, I realized that doing the reverse curl on the way down makes curling more intense. You can't reverse curl as much as you can curl normally, but you can lower more weight than you can raise. Therefore, you make the eccentric portion of the curl (which is normally easy) harder. I found that the forearm muscles responsible for the reverse curl fatigued at about the same rate as my biceps did for the regular curl. Doing the exercise in one continuous motion (left hand moving up while the right hand moves down) also added to the intensity, as there is no resting between reps. Done properly this exercise should look very fluid, but don't let the flowing appearance of it mislead you, this is brutal.

[Todd]

Originally Posted by Dan C

Anyone ever heard of this? May have also been referred to as a Zottman Curl. Very old school. I tried this exercise for the first time yesterday and for someone who is not a big fan of curling, I must say that I was impressed.

Here's how it's performed:

With a pair of dumbbells you're going to do a single arm curl. As you reach the top you're going to pronate your hand so the palm faces down and you do a reverse curl for the eccentric portion of the movement. The concentric portion of the other hand begins as you start the descent on the opposite hand... as one hand goes up, the other goes down.

Looking deeper into why someone would want to do this, I realized that doing the reverse curl on the way down makes curling more intense. You can't reverse curl as much as you can curl normally, but you can lower more weight than you can raise. Therefore, you make the eccentric portion of the curl (which is normally easy) harder. I found that the forearm muscles responsible for the reverse curl fatigued at about the same rate as my biceps did for the regular curl. Doing the exercise in one continuous motion (left hand moving up while the right hand moves down) also added to the intensity, as there is no resting between reps. Done properly this exercise should look very fluid, but don't let the flowing appearance of it mislead you, this is brutal.

Or you can blast your biceps with regular dumbbell/barbell/cable curls and then finish your bicep/forearm workout with reverse barbell curls. This allows you to use maximum weight for both actions that are comprised within the zottman curl without having to sacrifice load used.

[Blaze]

While Todd has a point(I'm not going to argue with Todd), I have tried the Zottman curl before and I have to say it did work rather well. There pretty challenging after a "few reps".

[Dan C]

Originally Posted by Todd

Or you can blast your biceps with regular dumbbell/barbell/cable curls and then finish your bicep/forearm workout with reverse barbell curls. This allows you to use maximum weight for both actions that are comprised within the zottman curl without having to sacrifice load used.

Actually, in the reverse curl portion of the exercise, you'd be doing a heavy negative with a weight that you might not even be able to lift concentrically. So no, the load is not sacrificed.

Good try though.

[luke.w]

sometimes makeing the sacrifice of the load to do harder lifts pays off in the long haul!!!

But I've never done that "zottman" exercise.

[Todd]

Originally Posted by Dan C

Actually, in the reverse curl portion of the exercise, you'd be doing a heavy negative with a weight that you might not even be able to lift concentrically. So no, the load is not sacrificed.

Huh? Not following what you just said above.

When you say reverse curl portion of the exercise, what part are you referring to? The downward motion or upward? I assume you're referring to the downward motion as you are saying a heavy negative.

So what do you mean by you're using a weight that you might not be able to lift concentrically. Obviously you have to be able to lift it concentrically for a Zottman curl, or else you are only doing half the movement. So not sure what you're actually saying here.

The downward (negative) portion of a Zottman curl is the hardest part of it...and really it is what dictates how much weight you can use. I mean, you have to be able to lift what ever weight you're using for both the concentric and eccentric portion of the lift in order to do the Zottman curl correctly.

Please explain what you're meaning with your above statement.

Good try though.

Now now, lets not get all worked up.

[Dan C]

It's really not that difficult to understand. The concentric portion is a curl. The eccentric portion is a reverse curl.

[luke.w]

if you do a reverse curl with the weight he's using you'll have to cheat in the concentric, and you can be strict with heavier weight on the negative (eccentric).

so I guess he's using a heavy weight for a regular curl, then instead of doing your regular negative he's doing a reverse curl negative adding more of a challenge and killing two birds with one stone?

I think I get the focus here, is this correct Dan?

[Khaine]

How is the principle not glaringly obvious...?

Say you can Curl 50lbs and Reverse Curl 40... Typically, any load is limited by how much weight you can LIFT (concentric), not by how much you can LOWER (eccentric)... So when you curl 50lbs and pronate to a Reverse Curl for the eccentric portion, you're using 10lbs more than you would for that part of a Reverse Curl, something that wouldn't have been possible without cheating the weight up, were the whole lift done pronated... As such, your brachialis and brachialiadis get a better workout...

I use the same principle for Leg Curls... Flex your ankle joint during the concentric part and extend it during the eccentric... It will allow you to use more weight than if the ankle was extended throughout, but the eccentric portion will be more demanding than if you were to flex the ankle all the way through...

[Dan C]

Yes. Curl up, reverse curl down.

[Todd]

Originally Posted by Khaine

How is the principle not glaringly obvious...?

Say you can Curl 50lbs and Reverse Curl 40... Typically, any load is limited by how much weight you can LIFT (concentric), not by how much you can LOWER (eccentric)... So when you curl 50lbs and pronate to a Reverse Curl for the eccentric portion, you're using 10lbs more than you would for that part of a Reverse Curl, something that wouldn't have been possible without cheating the weight up, were the whole lift done pronated... As such, your brachialis and brachialiadis get a better workout...

I use the same principle for Leg Curls... Flex your ankle joint during the concentric part and extend it during the eccentric... It will allow you to use more weight than if the ankle was extended throughout, but the eccentric portion will be more demanding than if you were to flex the ankle all the way through...

Yep, that there makes sense the way you explained it, thank you.

[climber511]

Zottmans - Old school? What the heck - I learned them when I started way back in the day . I think maybe they had just been invented then LOL. Anyway they are a good movement, for all the reasons stated above. Don't struggle but make them fluid, pretty good for the elbows done moderately - too heavy, too quick can tear you up (like always).

[Mr VW]

I tried these today. I was skeptical at first about how difficult they were. I felt a really nice pump afterwards. I really like reverse curl negatives.

[standAPART]

Zottman curls are awesome and YES, they are old skool. The problem people have is in the eccentric portion of the exercise. Most people lack eccentric strength and usually you will see the shoulder joint come into play. Of course, this can happen with any type of curl.

[Vas85]

I've tried Zottman curls in the past Dan, and found them very great for the forearm and biceps. Like you said, i found true that the weight you are curling on the negative (which is like the reverse dumbell curl) except you wont even lift 3/4's the weight of the Zotmann curl so you are hitting it a lot harder in the negative portion, as the reverse dumbell curl wont let you get that much weight up in the first place.

I used it about a year ago, for a while, was pretty good, just forgot kinda about it after a while as I didn't do direct bicep work for ages. My best bicep workout is still Underhand widegrip chins, Underhand closegrip chins, Overhand widegrip chins, and overhand closegrip chins, totally work out the arms like nothing for me before. Along with the awesome back workout it gives.