Program Suggestions Needed...

[gymrat]

I'm getting ready to implement a new program and I'm not sure how I want to structure it. I'm looking for feedback.

I was doing Max-OT up until recently and just loved it. I saw great gains in strength, but nothing discernable in terms of fat loss. In addition to Max-Ot, I was doing cardio about 5 days a week - 3 45 minute moderate sessions on the elliptical, one high intensity spin class and one high intensity walk or hike.

I dislocated my shoulder a couple of weeks ago and that pretty much sidelined me from lifting for a while. I've just been doing cardio, lower body, and core until I got clearance from the doc this week to go back to lifting. I don't do specific periodization training, but I figure it's good to switch things up now and then.

My goals are the same as they always are - gain muscle, lose fat. I've tried weighting my workouts more towards weights or more towards cardio to see if one or the other would yield better results, but it honestly seems to be a wash (and yes, I've done HIIT, guerilla cardio, Max-Ot cardio). The only real progress I've seen has been my increased strength with Max-Ot. Unfortunately, my body still looks pretty much the same. My diet is pretty clean.

I've been thinking of doing a 3 day split (like the one outlined in Max-OT) and doing some longer cardio on the days I don't lift with one day of rest. I'd really prefer not to do cardio on the days I lift as my schedule would pretty much demand I follow one with the other. Any suggestions, thoughts, or comments are welcome. Thanks!

[LiftGirl]

Originally Posted by gymrat

I'm getting ready to implement a new program and I'm not sure how I want to structure it. I'm looking for feedback.

I was doing Max-OT up until recently and just loved it. I saw great gains in strength, but nothing discernable in terms of fat loss. In addition to Max-Ot, I was doing cardio about 5 days a week - 3 45 minute moderate sessions on the elliptical, one high intensity spin class and one high intensity walk or hike.

I dislocated my shoulder a couple of weeks ago and that pretty much sidelined me from lifting for a while. I've just been doing cardio, lower body, and core until I got clearance from the doc this week to go back to lifting. I don't do specific periodization training, but I figure it's good to switch things up now and then.

My goals are the same as they always are - gain muscle, lose fat. I've tried weighting my workouts more towards weights or more towards cardio to see if one or the other would yield better results, but it honestly seems to be a wash (and yes, I've done HIIT, guerilla cardio, Max-Ot cardio). The only real progress I've seen has been my increased strength with Max-Ot. Unfortunately, my body still looks pretty much the same. My diet is pretty clean.

I've been thinking of doing a 3 day split (like the one outlined in Max-OT) and doing some longer cardio on the days I don't lift with one day of rest. I'd really prefer not to do cardio on the days I lift as my schedule would pretty much demand I follow one with the other. Any suggestions, thoughts, or comments are welcome. Thanks!

What's your diet like (besides clean)? How many cals are you taking in? Have you tried tracking it for a few days?

[gymrat]

Originally Posted by LiftGirl

What's your diet like (besides clean)? How many cals are you taking in? Have you tried tracking it for a few days?

My diet is high in veggies, fruits, lean proteins and whole grains (I probably eat the least whole grains of anything). I have varied my calories several times and yes, I've tracked (I use Dietpower). I have tweaked my macros and calories every which way and have stumped a few of my areas top dieticians about why I can't seem to lose. So, I've just decided to stick with my clean diet and try to tweak my exercise program (again!).

[.V.]

If you are looking for a new program, check out maverick's journal for ideas. He's a big periodization guy - so lots of changes in there.

[abarlament]

What methods were you using to track body composition changes? If you were getting stronger, you should probably be gaining muscle unless your diet was screwed.

[gymrat]

Originally Posted by abarlament

What methods were you using to track body composition changes? If you were getting stronger, you should probably be gaining muscle unless your diet was screwed.

I have no doubt that I was gaining muscle, but I didn't seem to be losing any fat (my weight increased as well). I own a bioelectrical impedance unit but those are notoriously unreliable so I just went by how my clothes fit.

[abarlament]

Oh. Then eat less.

[gymrat]

Originally Posted by abarlament

Oh. Then eat less.

I was actually looking for program suggestions rather than nutrition advice (which is why this thread is here instead of diet and nutrition) but thank you. I'm also thinking it's wise not to go below 1200 calories, which is what I've been eating lately.

[Lady C]

More calories, less calores, more work, more aerobics, I tried exactly what you have been through. I upped my calories but I'm watching the amount at each meal. I also increased the weights.

Are you stressed?

I think mine was more stress related. Job stress. High levels of stress and your body will not shed fat. I'm starting to see better results.

[gymrat]

Originally Posted by Lady C

More calories, less calores, more work, more aerobics, I tried exactly what you have been through. I upped my calories but I'm watching the amount at each meal. I also increased the weights.

Are you stressed?

I think mine was more stress related. Job stress. High levels of stress and your body will not shed fat. I'm starting to see better results.

Thanks... Yeah, I'm working on the stress.

[cursor]

Originally Posted by gymrat

I was doing Max-OT up until recently and just loved it. I saw great gains in strength, but nothing discernable in terms of fat loss. In addition to Max-Ot, I was doing cardio about 5 days a week - 3 45 minute moderate sessions on the elliptical, one high intensity spin class and one high intensity walk or hike (and yes, I've done HIIT, guerilla cardio, Max-Ot cardio).

That's interesting. At only 1200 calories, it sounds to me like you're not getting enough to fuel all of that activity. If you're doing the Max-OT style of lifting, are you processing those loads with the intensity that the program requires? I really have to doubt that you could, with so little dietary intake.

[CF-OC_gal]

In addition, you likely need to define your goals into something measureable and decide and how you will measure your progress or attainment.

"Gain muscle and lose fat". It looks like you've done that unless your weight gain is unrealistically high in terms of possible gains in muscle mass .

I agree with cursor, 1200 calories for 5 day cardio workouts +.... is not going to get you anywhere! That's minimum for the average sedentary person.

[cursor]

Consider Julie Moss' caloric intake:

reference 1
reference 2