Advice or opinions please ...

[CF-OC_gal]

I like to see what you power guys think I should do.

I want to go back to my fullbody workouts in mid March, but before then I want to do some strength, not mass building training (4-5 weeks).

One weaknesses is in my squats (I poop out easily - can't handle volume training). I'm open to focusing on the hamstring - glute connection in this equation. In other words I'm ready to try integrating box squats and other exercises that target the weakest link in my squat.

The other weak point I have is a tendency for tendonitis to flare up in my right elbow and now right shoulder so the upperbody routine should respect my limitations. I'd like to work at rotator cuff stabilization.

I can hit the gym 3 or 4 days a week to train. I could train each major muscle group once or twice during that time. A long time ago I tried a power program where I worked with % of 1RM and stuck to the weights and number of reps prescribed in the program. I did make the predicted % gain in strength at the end. I am open to doing something like that again.

Any suggestions for me as to what to include, rep range, # of sets total or should I just put something together and get feedback and tweaks from you guys.

I plan to do 2-3 days cardio but it will be low intensity/ lower end of training HR during this time.

Thanks

[Firehawk]

Monday:
Squats 2 x 5
Box squats 2 x 4
Leg presses 2 x 5 (pick 2 of the three listed as long as one is squats)
Calves (your choice of exercise) 2 x 10
(Could maybe do good mornings here too)

Tuesday:
Wide grip flat bench 2 x 6 (index fingers on the rings)
Decline medium grip bench 2 x 6 (pinkies on the rings)
Weighted dips 2 x 10
Upright rows or side laterals 1 x 10

Thursday:
Dead lifts (rotate variations each week) 2 x 5
reverse hypers, pull thrus or glute ham raise 1 x 10-15
Bent over rows 2 x 4
Reverse grip narrow grip pull downs 2 x 6
Standing wide grip curls 2 x 8 (or your favorite curl here)


Let me know what you think. These are all working sets, make sure you properly warmed up before you do these sets. You should barely be able to complete the working sets. Rest long enough that you are fully recovered as much as possible between the working sets.

I got this from an experienced powerlifter/trainer. I'm saving this for when I start bulking. This and Jaster's BB routine .

[luke.w]

have you ever done "overhead squats"?

overhead squating sounds like it can kill both your weaknesses in one stone,
your forced to perform your squat with perfect form ass to grass, and will build shoulder strength and stabilization, if your having shoulder problems now I'd stay away from benching, the overhead stuff would help more, the benching could make it worse (risky at least).

If you haven't done them, start with a broomstick and build up to using an empty LIGHT bar, and go from there, keep the reps and sets at 5 or under. just something to consider, I'm in love with these, I also do "partials" so I can use heavy weight and it's made my shoulders tough, my buddy has his wife doing these also.

[Firehawk]

How can doing overhead stuff be any better on the shoulders?

[luke.w]

because in overhead squats your not raising the weight up and down in reps, your just lift once overhead and support the weight overhead, witch in return strengthens the tendons and ligaments, the most important area, and doing the squat in overhead works stabilization, helping the shoulders, and elbows get tougher, using legs to hoist weight overhead also takes stress off the shoulders, plus the stress on the shoulders in bench isn't as natural as overhead.

also look up or ask any strength athlete, witch one has the most shoulder problems.....the benchers, or the guys who train only overhead lifts.

It seems I've never read about any old timers (guys who only trained overhead) and never did any benching having any shoulder problems from weightlifting.

[Firehawk]

That's not an accurate assumption though. You can't just say because people bench they get shoulder problems lol.

I see what you are saying, but you can't generalize it that way.

I'd be alot more inclined to blame shoulder injuries from too much volume and overtraining of the shoulders, or terrible form, before I'd just simply attribute all or most weightlifting shoulder injuries to bench pressing.

[grambo]

Originally Posted by Firehawk

.

I'd be alot more inclined to blame shoulder injuries from too much volume and overtraining of the shoulders

TRUE

As im down for the count right now, hopefully for not much longer. It was simply a case of benching too frequently.

[grambo]

As far as that routine posted. I'll say this, what works for others may not work for you.

Leg presses shouldnt be an option. Quad work should be done using close stance squats, or front squats(its just better). Calves are a fairly useless muscle when it comes to legs/leg strength, so i'd skip those all together, unless you want bigger calves. GM's are one of the key posterior chain moves. A quick revision would leave you with..

Box Squats
Front Squats
Good Morning Variation
Ab work

I wouldnt recommend a bench grip that wide to anyone who didnt have a very strong benching base already. I've noticed personally that my lbs are lower with a wider grip, or I struggle with a weight that was easy closer grip. Sure, working on a weak area isnt bad. In brats case, there is a shoulder issue. A wider grip will stress the shoulder more.
Additionally, I think its nice to throw some unilateral upper body work in there, catch any weaknesses that one side might have. So DB benching, flat/incline/decline, doesnt matter.
Last point on the bench day, Upright rows are murder on my shoulders(when they are healthy). I'd stay away from them.

Flat Bench
Incline DB Bench
Dips
Lateral Raises

The deadlift day looks pretty good.If you dont have a reverse hyper or GHR available. I'd just do a DL variation though. SLDL, RDL, personally I find the weight stack on pulley systems stupid light, but DL variations are better anyways. I'd lose one of the lat exercises, you only need so much volume. Curls, well, who are the curls for? The girls...

DL
RDL
Bent barbell Rows
curls

For a pl'er there is more I dont like with this program, but since the issue here isnt big 3 strength, but overall strength the volume is more ideal.

[Firehawk]

Everyone's a critic .

[candyass]

Form its where its at if you dont want an injury benching. So keep those damn elbows tucked!

[grambo]

Originally Posted by Firehawk

Everyone's a critic .

sad but true...

[luke.w]

Originally Posted by Firehawk

That's not an accurate assumption though. You can't just say because people bench they get shoulder problems lol.

I see what you are saying, but you can't generalize it that way.

I'd be alot more inclined to blame shoulder injuries from too much volume and overtraining of the shoulders, or terrible form, before I'd just simply attribute all or most weightlifting shoulder injuries to bench pressing.

Yeah, I totally agree with the overtraining and such, I really didn't mean it in that way, only in Brat's case, I see it as if someone dosen't want to be a "bench pressing specialist" or have a certain look in their pecs, and is having a shoulder issue, I don't see any point in training it.

I think that someone with shoulder issues needs to strengthen their tendons more, and benching isn't the answer, "floor presses" sounds good and overhead supporting witch I know for a fact tougnens the tendons in way nothing else does.

Are any of the guys with shoulders problems doing any overhead supporting?
Maybe throwing some partial overheads on the powerrack from time to time will toughen your shoulders up for benching, I'm so close to the 300lb mark on overhead supporting and doing a decent amount of overhead presses inbetween and my shoulders feel perfect.

[luke.w]

Here's another exercise to work the "rotator" stablizing, "crucafix hold" instead of doing laterial raises for reps, just hold the dumbells out to the side for 10sec.(do not go to failure) use a weight where 10sec holds feels good and do 2-4sets. This also hits the tendons in a differant way, like overhead supporting "laterial holds" works the inside of the shoulder more than the outside.

I swear their are SOME strongman events that are great for rehab and injury prevention.

[CF-OC_gal]

Great discussion going here. It sounds more and more like what I like to do for my regular weight workouts is beneficial for my shoulder problems. Here is the deal with the shoulder and elbow. Both my arm weaknesses are due to repetitive strain injuries in everyday life and a genetic predisposition. I've inherited my mothers joints and her attitude. Yes I probably over do it and use less than ideal form, not in the gym, but in everyday life. I work with textiles mostly, large heavy pieces at times. My arms are in constant movement and I'm often having to shift adjust fold and lift. I probably should be mindfully involving my lats more in the pulling, but no, I tend to just pull harder from the shoulder when I don't get my way. Thanks for this discusssion - you've made me realize how this whole thing started. My pain is in the point of insertion on the arm. I feel it if I reach behind my back and pull on my wrist with the other arm.

Here are my thoughts on what has been offered:

Originally Posted by Firehawk

Monday:
Squats 2 x 5
Box squats 2 x 4
Leg presses 2 x 5 (pick 2 of the three listed as long as one is squats)
Calves (your choice of exercise) 2 x 10
(Could maybe do good mornings here too)

Tuesday:
Wide grip flat bench 2 x 6 (index fingers on the rings)
Decline medium grip bench 2 x 6 (pinkies on the rings)
Weighted dips 2 x 10
Upright rows or side laterals 1 x 10

Thursday:
Dead lifts (rotate variations each week) 2 x 5
reverse hypers, pull thrus or glute ham raise 1 x 10-15
Bent over rows 2 x 4
Reverse grip narrow grip pull downs 2 x 6
Standing wide grip curls 2 x 8 (or your favorite curl here)

This split and volume I could do. Could I alternate leg press and lunges on different days and maybe add leg curls or are GM's better?

Re: Flat bench press. I'm fine with these. I usually have my little fingers just at tjhe rings because my forearems are at right angles at this point and I get the greatest range of motion. Any wider and and the distance shortens and any narrower and my girly bits get in the way. Can I go for 5 reps not 6?

Dips on a regular basis = aggravated shoulders, especially bad if the fixed width grip at my gym. I wish we had a set up with v-shaped bars so I could find the right spacing for me. Weighted dips = ROTFLMAO Haven't been able to do those since I weighed 115 lbs. I am "weighted" just being myself!

Upright rows = triple whamy. Instant tennis elbow, shoulder aggravation and worst of all wing like upper traps. I used to love doing them but they were not worth it. Can I just do shoulder press with dumbells? What are your thoughts on flyes or pec deck? Usefull or a waste of time when it comes to strength?

I've got no problem with the back and bi day offered except I am not familiar with pull thrus. I'll look them up.

Do I work to failure on the last rep or almost failure?
Should I work back from a predicted or tested one rep max or just "guess and adjust it next time?"

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Overhad squats. I've considered doing these in the past but figured they would be better in my stability/balance workouts for the time being. Plus when I start with weighted ones I would be using less than the olympic barbell so I wouldn't have a rack to use. Would using the Smith rack setup be any good for these?

Narrow stance squats - front squats: I do these in my regular workouts on a rotational basis because I have a "clicky" right knee that hates these, hack squats and one-legged squats.

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I know it's hard to think of what my goals would be with this since any PR numbers are not going to be impressive nor do I want big arms. I would take bigger thighs though ( you heard a girl say that!). My biggest goals are to work towards using my bodyweight for 5-6 reps in bench, squat and deadlift. I am very close to that with deadlift and have surpassed it before so I know that will be reached first. I've been as high as repping 120 for squats going down to parallel. Bench I've been repping this range with about 88lbs max. Consider 135-140 as what I would like to achieve. My hormones and tricky tendons are probably my biggest hurdles with all of this.

What about stretching, do it after?

I really appreciate everyone who is participating in this! : Thanks

[CF-OC_gal]

Originally Posted by luke.w

Here's another exercise to work the "rotator" stablizing, "crucafix hold" instead of doing laterial raises for reps, just hold the dumbells out to the side for 10sec.(do not go to failure) use a weight where 10sec holds feels good and do 2-4sets. This also hits the tendons in a differant way, like overhead supporting "laterial holds" works the inside of the shoulder more than the outside.

I swear their are SOME strongman events that are great for rehab and injury prevention.

This sounds like a good one to throw in when doing balance/ stability workouts. don't iometrics only strengthen the muscle at that angle? wouldn't I have to do 10 sec holds at various points in the lift?