Another one of those "failure" questions...

[TommyD]

When lifting on Westside, if, for example, you have your ME Bench day and you have board bench, skull crushers, push downs, ab pull downs, etc., should you be going to failure on the supplementary lifts or just using light enough weight so you can skip failure.

I'm asking this because sometimes I'll have something like 6x10 for skull crushers and it seems that even though I start out with a fairly light weight to begin with, it gets HEAVY by the 6th set.

Might as well ask this in this thread too... would SLDL's be a suitable replacement for Glute-Ham Raises and Hyperextensions a good replacement for Reverse Hyperextensions. I don't have the equipment for either of those exercises. If they aren't kosher replacements, any other ideas?

[beefcurry1]

i think i have read a WS workout journal saying something like "keep doing sets of 3 until you can no longer do sets of 3". i would assume that means the last set, whether it be set 4 or 8, will be to, if not failure, then unable to do another.

[abarlament]

"If the bar slows down greatly, compared to all your other reps, then don't do another rep as chances are you are going to fail on it" is a good rule of thumb.

[TommyD]

I realize that on the ME Bench I should be going to failure, but on the other exercises like skull crushers, would those be going to failure?

[KetoManiac]

limit failure except on ME exercises, otherwise you wont be able to keep up with the frequency

1-2 reps short of failure is fine

Young

[kungfu74]

Originally Posted by KetoManiac

limit failure except on ME exercises, otherwise you wont be able to keep up with the frequency

1-2 reps short of failure is fine

Young

just a question, but unless you have gone to failure before how do you know you are 1-2 reps short of failure? wouldn't it be adviseble to go to failure once in a while to re-affirm where you currently are at, and not short yourself a couple reps if you can get them out...? my 'limited' experience i need to go to failure often to realize where I am at, and how much I have improved / di-gressed [sp?]... I also have seen vast differences, ie. greater then 3 reps in failure within a 2 week span...

[KetoManiac]

Originally Posted by kungfu74

just a question, but unless you have gone to failure before how do you know you are 1-2 reps short of failure? wouldn't it be adviseble to go to failure once in a while to re-affirm where you currently are at, and not short yourself a couple reps if you can get them out...? my 'limited' experience i need to go to failure often to realize where I am at, and how much I have improved / di-gressed [sp?]... I also have seen vast differences, ie. greater then 3 reps in failure within a 2 week span...

well, I rarely train to failure these days, 1 rep short of it is fine. Im not sure what you mean though about tracking progress and training to failure. The main point of the higher rep stuff in westside is for (functional) mass, not so much testing your strength, so its fine.

Training to failure to much causes damage to the CNS, motor neuron/units, brain signals (think action potential), etc

Young

[NateDogg]

Originally Posted by kungfu74

just a question, but unless you have gone to failure before how do you know you are 1-2 reps short of failure? wouldn't it be adviseble to go to failure once in a while to re-affirm where you currently are at, and not short yourself a couple reps if you can get them out...? my 'limited' experience i need to go to failure often to realize where I am at, and how much I have improved / di-gressed [sp?]... I also have seen vast differences, ie. greater then 3 reps in failure within a 2 week span...

Like Keto said, the ME lifts are where you test your strength gains, moreover, the "once in a while" max attempts at a full range squat, deadlift and bench press are where you really test them. As for not knowing when you are nearing failure, you just know. Good quote above though about the bar slowing down, that's a pretty good sign failure is near.

[kungfu74]

while I do agree with the note about the bar slowing down during the movemenet being an ok indicator that failure may be near, my only point was unless you actually go to failure once in a while you dont' truly know if you came up 1 or 2 reps short of failure... if you always stop that '1 rep short of failure' how do you know if you could have gotten another or not, when you didn't even try? when I lift I have a target rep range that I'm confident I can get say 6 reps out of with a certain weight. now let's say that was pretty easy and you decide to up the weight this week maybe 5 or 10 lbs with the goal of getting 6 more reps. and you get 5 and 1/2 (comeon everyone has done that at some point right?) well that's what i'm talking about... I just feel like if your always stopping 1-2 reps short of failure your not pushing yourself or lifting with decent intensity... just MHO ... thanks guys...

[KetoManiac]

it really doesnt matter, just make sure you dont train too hard, youll know if your clsoe to failure

[TommyD]

Well usually before I hit failure, those last few reps are killers. Once they start becoming too taxing too soon, I know it's time to stop and/or lower the weight.