Bench plateau

[tim_mcf]

Some of this is from my workout journal, wherein Maverick told me to ask the PL guys for input…so here you go-

My bench is starting to hit a plateau. Here’s what I did this week:

*flat bench - 10x45, 6x135, 2x155, 1x175, 4x3x185
*db bench - 2x6x67.5, 5x67.5
*smith bench, working on the sticking point - 6x142.5, 6x145, 5x147.5
*speed bench - 2x20x72.5

I thought about trying another week of this routine, and if it doesn't go better (I wanted 6x3 today, not 4x3) I need to look for some hefty shocks or something to get me jumpstarted again. I thought about staying at this weight for a month or so, but doing 5x4 next week, then 4x5 the week after, then 6x3, and THEN going back to the 3x6 with more weight...any thoughts? Would I be better off doing a major Maverick-style shock or two?

I started on the 6x3 bench routine a few months back, and it took me from 3x165 to 3x180. Got stuck again and changed my routine to what you see now, and managed to take it up another 5 pounds. Now I'm stuck again.

I guess my goal is to move more weight...as a way to stimulate hypertrophy. My goals are: improve overall fitness - be strong - look good - in that order. All my other exercises are trucking right along; I am consistently able to run a little faster than last time, I can consistently squat a little heavier than last time, etc. I interpret that as having improved my overall fitness. Bench is going nowhere fast, though.

Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

[threenorns]

for my money, that's too much chest work.

i suggest you kill the smith machine presses: they're not good for eliminating sticking points because they force your body to follow an unnatural plane of motion - i found rack presses (unrack and set the barbell on the pins and do them bottom-up, not top-down like normal bench press) to be invaluable for eliminating sticking points. i did them for three weeks: the first week, i could only get 105 off the bar. on the third week, i was at 145 - my regular bench was 155 for 3. the following week, i went back to regular bench and i did 155 for 5 (could've gone more, but i missed the groove and messed things up).

my understanding of the 6x3 is that you do a lighter weight and work for speed (3 reps in 3 seconds), doing no other heavy bench work in the meantime.

so, in short, kill the smith, kill the speed bench (the last exercise), move db press to auxiliary status (1, maximum 2 sets of 10 or 12 reps), and do four sets of rack presses.

[Firehawk]

Threenorns that's not what the 6 x 3 routine is. It's not a speed routine.

How did you perform the 6 x 3 routine when you tried it? Did you start real light and work your way back up? What grip did you use when doing the routine? How's your diet?

Another good routine that GCS is doing right now is alternating 5 x 5 one week with 3 x 3 + 1 heavy single the next.

If you try that, then start VERY EASY. Take whatever you can do for 5 reps now and start 15 lbs lighter so that it is pretty easy, the next week take whatever you can do for 3 reps and start 10 lbs lighter so it's easy. Then every session increase by 5 lbs until you plateau.

For you, i'd max out the next week and then start a new routine like 5 x 5, 3 x 3 + 1 single 20lbs heavier than the weight u using for 3 reps, or something else. Maybe 5 x 5 every week, or 2-3 sets of 5 every week.

I'd get away from the 3 x 3 or 4 x 3 every week for now because you've been doing that.

I also wouldn't do speed work in the same session as heavy bench. Speed bench is meant to be done 3 days before heavy bench is. Also wouldn't do 20 reps either if that's what you're doing. Sets of 3 reps is good. Some strength groups have gone to doing singles but that's more for advanced guys and also those that train with bands/chains.

I do 9 sets of 3 45-60 seconds apart, and the 3 reps are done with 3 different grips , 3 sets with pinkies on the rings, 3 sets with ring fingers on the rings, and 3 sets with index on the rings. Idea is to move the weight 3 reps in under 3 seconds.

[tim_mcf]

i found rack presses (unrack and set the barbell on the pins and do them bottom-up, not top-down like normal bench press) to be invaluable for eliminating sticking points.

threenorns - so you do this in a squat cage, basically?

How did you perform the 6 x 3 routine when you tried it? Did you start real light and work your way back up? What grip did you use when doing the routine? How's your diet?

I had plateued at 165, but could do sets of 4 or 5, so I started the 6x3 at that weight. I put middle fingers on the rings. Here's a fairly representative sample of my diet:

-5 am: 1 slice dry wheat toast, 5 egg whites, 2.5 oz moose sausage, 3 prunes
-7 am: 1 cup skim milk, 1 scoop whey post workout (but only MWF)
-9:30 am: 1 cup skim milk, 1 scoop whey, 4 prunes
11:30 am: sandwich made with 2 slices wheat toast, mustard, 3/4 cup canned salmon, slice of tomato & some lettuce; apple
3:00 pm: 1 cup canned salmon, banana
-another workout here every day, about 4 pm-
-5 pm: 1 cup skim milk, 1 scoop whey
-6:30 pm: varies...last night had beans & ham with cornbread...night before was spaghetti squash casserole...most of my veggies come here
-8:30 (sometimes) another piece of fruit or something

I assume I would probably hit a 1 rep max around 195 or 200. So you think I should try 5x5 one week at 150-155 (I'm guessing on the numbers), then next week at 3x3 at 175 and one single at 195?

[Firehawk]

No start lower. Dont' start at what your maximum weight is you can do right now. Start lighter.

What does that all add up to in calories and whats the nutrient breakdown in p/c/f? I just don't feel like adding it up myself lol.

[tim_mcf]

That's roughly 2300-2500 calories, probably 35%p / 40%c / 25%f. I'm not keeping quite that close an eye on it right now, just trying to stay away from donuts and ice cream (and partially hydrogenated vegetable oil, and high fructose corn syrup) as much as possible. And eat a lot of protein.

So, 5x5 @ 140? 3x3 @ 165, one single at 185? What about the rest of my chest day...do you agree with threenorns on the rack presses? Keep the db press or not? Add something?

[Firehawk]

Where's your weakpoint on your bench?

You have to think about what reps you need to do. If you can bench 165 for 5 reps then I'd start at 145ish, and if u can do 180 for 3 reps i'd start at 165ish and work up. How big an ole boy are ya? Is 2300-2500 sufficient for muscle growth or are you trying to cut fat?

[gcs118]

I made some suggestions in your journal.

[threenorns]

yep - in the cage. sans spotter, i do all my bench work in the cage.

[tim_mcf]

Where's your weakpoint on your bench?

about 5 or 6 inches off my chest

How big an ole boy are ya?

6'2", 225 lbs. I'd guess right now I'm at about 12-14% bf - I'm starting to look like some day I might have a 6-pack - at least now it's obvious that there is one in there.

Is 2300-2500 sufficient for muscle growth or are you trying to cut fat?

I'm sort of doing an extended bulk/cut at the same time. My weight hasn't really changed since about August, but I'm leaner and more muscular.

I made some suggestions in your journal.

Thanks, gcs!

[grambo]

was that all the bench specific work you did?

[tim_mcf]

Yes

[Firehawk]

That's probably why the 6x 3 strength routine didn't work as well. You made 15 lb progress but you should have gotten a bit more than that out of it. It should be done while eating big or eating for growth. Now you can do both, but it takes manipulating the diet.

I do a carb cycle type thing, it's called a timed carb diet. My heaviest workouts (heavy lower body and heavy bench) are on saturday and sunday, so friday ill carb up (but not overeat, just eat more carbs , like 350) and then eat alot on saturday, usually take my cheat day that day, and i feel strong on sat and sun. On sunday ill cut the carbs back out afte rmy post workout meal and then keep my calories right around BMR level on monday through thursday. That seems to work real well for me. When i'm focused and doing it properly i drop 2 lbs a week. I'm 6'3 297.

I'd probably guess your BMR is about 2300 or so so tha'ts the bare minimum u should take in.

[grambo]

Originally Posted by tim_mcf

*flat bench - 10x45, 6x135, 2x155, 1x175, 4x3x185
*db bench - 2x6x67.5, 5x67.5
*smith bench, working on the sticking point - 6x142.5, 6x145, 5x147.5
*speed bench - 2x20x72.5

With that said, I wouldnt say your use of smith rack presses(or smith rack period), and DE work on a regular bench day as being ideal.

If you wanna work speed, add a DE day. If you did 2 sets of 20 speed reps, thats wrong. Speed benching is done in short bursts, 3 reps max, 8-10 sets(50-65% of 1rm).

If you're going to work a weak point in the press in addition to your primary benching(as opposed to making it your focus). Do it, but you'd definetley want to substitute it for the DB Bench work. Its just too much. In addition, do it in the power rack, and do pin presses.

You'd probably benefit from simple assistance work, nothing too heavy in relation to your benching, just giving the muscles that may be letting down your press some extra work.

[Firehawk]

Well well well look who decides to grace us with his presence every 8 months?