Big Strength Gains Help! - Page 2

**Firehawk** · 13-Aug-05, 07:43 AM

I wasn't talking about his setup, just his pressing lol. It goes up though and he's strong as hell. I saw him at the Senior Nationals in June and oh my God his triceps looked like they were going to tear his sleeves.

DarkLord · 13-Aug-05, 12:52 PM

Wooaa wooaa wooaa, isn't the idea of bench pressing with good form to keep your back flat on the not bench and not arch it like on the video clip like threenorns showed ( I've managed to download it) as you really risk screwing your back up big time?!

**threenorns** · 13-Aug-05, 01:17 PM

lol - the ghost of disputes past arises yet again!

DL, take it from me: you're talking to an ex-flatback here. i have lower back problems from a childhood accident. when i was 13 or so, i fell on the stairs and landed flat on my back, hips flat to the stairs, shoulders twisted 90 degrees to avoid crushing the pup that had caused the accident. i was SO messed up, i was literally paralyzed for a little bit - a little over an hour, i think it was. chiropractic therapy for MONTHS. to this day, i'm prone to sciatica and my lower back goes spastic from time to time.

you can understand when i say i'm PARANOID about my lower back.

trust me: when you arch your back properly, keeping your ass and shoulders driven into the bench and holding your stomach FIRM, there is ZERO pressure on the spine. i'm not saying to make like the Golden Arches - i don't - but your spine is meant to be curved - it was designed to bear a load while being curved, not flat.

i was so afraid of messing my back up, plus i have short legs and putting my feet flat on the floor made my lower back hurt, that i used to bench with my feet up on the bench itself. good thing i was just using baby weights then, cause with heavy weights, my balance would have been seriously compromised. when i finally worked up the nerve and tried it the way firehawk urged, i couldn't believe the difference: my back felt perfectly fine and natural, the leg position took care of the shortness problem (since i didn't have to keep them flat to the floor), and i was able to handle heavier weights with a lot more confidence.

in addition, arching your back allows your lats to come into it properly - flat on the bench isolates your pecs, which means you'll never be able to handle truly big weights.

DarkLord · 13-Aug-05, 02:03 PM

Yeah I see what you mean now. There's nothing wrong with an extremely shallow curve in the back whilst benching, in fact I think we all have it in the same way as the ball of our feet. When I meant dangerous I meant overly extreme. Many bodybuilders and books state ( even Bill Philips) show that it will hit your extreme lower back and possibly damage you for good.

**threenorns** · 13-Aug-05, 02:46 PM

it all depends on the individual. were it to cause negative pain or discomfort, trust me, a powerlifter is NOT gonna keep doing it because he'll just be shooting his career in the foot. some individuals are a lot more flexible than others, is all. properly executed, there is no pressure on the lower back while doing a bench press no matter how high the arch.

DaRkAnGel · 13-Aug-05, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by threenorns

it all depends on the individual. were it to cause negative pain or discomfort, trust me, a powerlifter is NOT gonna keep doing it because he'll just be shooting his career in the foot. some individuals are a lot more flexible than others, is all. properly executed, there is no pressure on the lower back while doing a bench press no matter how high the arch.

Actually, the degree to which i am uncomfortable is the degree to which my bench press improves while arching haha.

If i can arch comfortably chances are im not arching tight enough.

It has never messed up my spine, though.

**threenorns** · 13-Aug-05, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaRkAnGel

Actually, the degree to which i am uncomfortable is the degree to which my bench press improves while arching haha.

If i can arch comfortably chances are im not arching tight enough.

It has never messed up my spine, though.

"uncomfortable", fine - it's true: if you're "comfortable" on the bench, you're not doing it right.

but actual negative "s---t, this hurts!" feelings? i don't think so.

**Firehawk** · 13-Aug-05, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkLord

Yeah I see what you mean now. There's nothing wrong with an extremely shallow curve in the back whilst benching, in fact I think we all have it in the same way as the ball of our feet. When I meant dangerous I meant overly extreme. Many bodybuilders and books state ( even Bill Philips) show that it will hit your extreme lower back and possibly damage you for good.

Bill Phillips knows nothing about getting strong. He's a bodybuilder (no offense). Bodybuilders don't usually arch their back unless they train like powerlifters.

You ever try the body for life weightlifting routine? I have and it sucks. You don't get big off it. It's a weightlifting cardio session. It helps you burn fat and that's all it does.

**Firehawk** · 13-Aug-05, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaRkAnGel

Actually, the degree to which i am uncomfortable is the degree to which my bench press improves while arching haha.

If i can arch comfortably chances are im not arching tight enough.

It has never messed up my spine, though.

Yep that's a great attitude. If you are comfortable on the bench then you are not set up properly

. Always strive for a better arch every single time you set up.

You must be getting this from MM

.

**threenorns** · 13-Aug-05, 05:21 PM

i tried to find it, but of course i can't remember where it is, but there's a page that clearly illustrates (with videos, even) the difference between bodybuilding form and powerlifting form.

**Firehawk** · 13-Aug-05, 06:06 PM

I can tell you exactly how to bench bodybuild style. Elbows out, no arch, feet flat on the floor.

**threenorns** · 13-Aug-05, 09:10 PM

don't forget the breathing! innnnnnnn on the way down, ooooooooout on the way up.

in powerlifting, you suck in as big a lungful as you can at the top, then hold that sucker until you've completed the rep. that REALLY helped me - when i tried the usual breathing pattern, i literally felt my chest collapse just when i didn't need it to.

**Firehawk** · 14-Aug-05, 08:11 AM

yeah when you are set up like a powerlifter, and you let your breath go, your back will lose it's arch so you might as well rack the weight. And, don't pick the weight up and then take a breath, take your breath before you unrack the weight or before someone hands it off.

DarkLord · 14-Aug-05, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firehawk

I can tell you exactly how to bench bodybuild style. Elbows out, no arch, feet flat on the floor.

I'm not sure if I have this incorrectly but how do you mean elbows out, how far out? I do know that to far out and you are going to pay the price in your shoulders. Anyway aren't people who arch there backs simply trying to turn it into a bench press pullover? K.I.S

**threenorns** · 14-Aug-05, 09:03 AM

"elbows out" means sticking your upper arms straight out to the sides.

arching your back allows all the auxiiliary muscles to come into play as they should. when lifting BIG weight, the very last thing you want to do is isolate the pecs. it doesn't work too well.