Deadlifting Bouncing or Full Stop?

[Winder]

I wanted to get people's thoughts about bouncing the plates off the floor versus coming to a full stop (and possibly resetting for) each rep.

It seems that the challenge for me is finishing, not starting. Thus my inclinatio is to bounce to keep working a set longer to keep the effort focused on where it is needed for overcoming my weak spot, the second half of the lift.

If I am resetting, then I am spending effort on starting, but that doesn't seem to be be my weak point.

Thoughts out there?

[grambo]

I would peform your regular deadlifts with a pause in between each rep. You dont want to any way hinder improvements on the bottom half. Probably use some SLDL's, and extra back work as assistance.

However, if your weak point of the lift is the lock out, you could switch from regular DL's to rack pulls for a few weeks to really work on the top half of the pull.

[Firehawk]

I seriously think bouncing is the wrong word to use. It's one thing to bounce something, like a BB off your chest when you bench, or bounce out of the bottom of a squat. Unless you got some kind of material that "bounces" under your deadlift, it's the wrong word to use.

I "TAP" the floor with the weight. I trained where i set the weight down, paused, and started back up again when i first started. That was easier than keeping constant tension on the back by just "TAPPING" the floor. If you are slamming the weight hard enough i guess that could somewhat seem like u are bouncing it off the floor. I would then say, lower it slower and just lightly TAP the floor lol.

Just my .02.

If you do have a weakness and want to train a specific part, I agree with Grambo. Put the pins on the rack at your knee level and deadlift from that to work everything but the starting point, OR put the pins higher to start...as was suggested already.

[grambo]

Originally Posted by Firehawk

I "TAP" the floor with the weight. I trained where i set the weight down, paused, and started back up again when i first started. That was easier than keeping constant tension on the back by just "TAPPING" the floor.

Tapping the floor builds less strength, the idea recently came up on another forumn i frequent. That was followed by an article written by a well respected strength coach confirming its ineffectivness.

To train the deadlift with the maximum potential, you want stop any momentum you'd possibly have. I know its been said to train DL's in singles only because of that, however this was followed with if you're doing multiple reps to even re-grip the bar as you touch down to perform the next rep. I think thats a bit extreme personally, that'd **** my grip up.

i'll find that article if you want firehawk, let me know..

[Firehawk]

Sure I'll take a look at it. But I don't really see how it builds LESS strength. It's alot harder to keep the constant tension than it is to stop in my opinion, because i've done them both ways.

Jaster taps the floor too. As do alot of expert lifters.

[grambo]

According to Mel Siff in Supertraining,

“It is relevant to note that the repeated production of involuntary reflex activity, like voluntary effort, results in fatigue. Thus, the level of muscle tension elicited by reflex action diminishes with repeated stimulation, a fact which is highly relevant to the use of plyometric training. Another effect which is closely associated with fatigue is known as rebound. This refers to the fact that, after one reflex contraction, stimulation of a second and successive reflexes of the same type becomes progressively more difficult for a certain time afterwards. Although this inhibits the repetition of near maximal or maximal acyclic exercises, it actually facilitates repetition in cyclic activities. Because of reciprocal inhibition, it becomes easier to activate the antagonist muscles during the period when rebound inhibition of the agonist occurs…It is believed that rebound is one of the main mechanisms which facilitate the production of cyclic activities such as locomotion, swimming and cycling.” pp177-178



yes its a mouth full, but summarizes why performing quick reps on dl isnt AS effective in strengthing the deadlift.

[Firehawk]

I'm surrpised you could actually understand that LOL.

[Firehawk]

Well, I'm not experienced enough to have a serious opinion on whethter it develops the deadlift faster or not, but here's my point:

If someone does quick singles, for say 6 reps. Let's say they can do 315 x 6 and can't do a 7th rep. Whos' stronger? That person, or someone that can tap the floor with 315 x6 reps? I say the latter.

That doesnt refer to who is DEVELOPING the deadlift faster, but I'd say the one that can kep constant tension is stronger.

From my experience, my deadlift came up quick when i was doing either way. I feel alot stronger when i keep the tension on so that's how I do it. I think it's alot harder, and I sitll make excellent gains.

On a side note, maybe Ronnie COleman never saw that study .

[grambo]

speed is one thing, but overall power is the objective.

The DL in a pl'ing capacity is done for a single, thats ideally what you want to train for. Irregardless of how its done, the test is to perform a single.

You're right in saying that it'll build more strength, BUT for 5 or 6 reps, NOT for a single. If your going for a bigger total, the single is your focus.



another snippit on the idea, taken from Top 10 Deadlifting mistakes written by Dave Tate...

"Mistake #7: Training with multiple reps

Next time you see someone doing multiple reps on the deadlift, take note of the form of each rep. You'll see the later reps look nothing like the first. In competition you only have to pull once, so you need to learn how to develop what's known as starting strength for the deadlift. This is the strength needed to get the bar off the floor without an eccentric (negative) action before the start.

In other words, you don't lower the bar first and then lift the weight as you do with the squat and bench press. When you train with multiple reps you're beginning to develop reversal strength, which isn't needed with the deadlift.

These two reasons are enough to keep the deadlift training to singles. If you're using multiple reps with the deadlift, then stand up in between each rep and restart the lift. This way you'll be teaching the proper form and be developing the right kind of strength."

[Firehawk]

Originally Posted by grambo

speed is one thing, but overall power is the objective.

The DL in a pl'ing capacity is done for a single, thats ideally what you want to train for. Irregardless of how its done, the test is to perform a single.

You're right in saying that it'll build more strength, BUT for 5 or 6 reps, NOT for a single. If your going for a bigger total, the single is your focus.



another snippit on the idea, taken from Top 10 Deadlifting mistakes written by Dave Tate...

"Mistake #7: Training with multiple reps

Next time you see someone doing multiple reps on the deadlift, take note of the form of each rep. You'll see the later reps look nothing like the first. In competition you only have to pull once, so you need to learn how to develop what's known as starting strength for the deadlift. This is the strength needed to get the bar off the floor without an eccentric (negative) action before the start.

In other words, you don't lower the bar first and then lift the weight as you do with the squat and bench press. When you train with multiple reps you're beginning to develop reversal strength, which isn't needed with the deadlift.

These two reasons are enough to keep the deadlift training to singles. If you're using multiple reps with the deadlift, then stand up in between each rep and restart the lift. This way you'll be teaching the proper form and be developing the right kind of strength."

I can agree with you that if you are looking at it purely from a strength standpoint and want the biggest SINGLe, sure, that's your focus, getting the one time pull as high up as you can. But I dont agree that peforming singles is always the best way to go about that.

[Firehawk]

I need to elaborate more, I just dont have the time right now. Ill be back lol.

[Firehawk]

Well I'm learning alot from this one. I'm chatting on other forums with some experienced guys and they are basically saying the same things we are here.

If it's all about the 1 rep for you, then they think training with singles is ideal. If you are about hypertrophy, then touch and go method is better.

I still tend to think that you can get great strength by touch and go though. I guess it all depends on what you are training for. If you are entering a PL meet then your focus would be on how much you can max at.

Some of the guys are saying that if you "touch and go" you are weak at your starting point and should train with singles. But I am not so sure i agree with that yet.

[grambo]

Originally Posted by Firehawk

Some of the guys are saying that if you "touch and go" you are weak at your starting point and should train with singles. But I am not so sure i agree with that yet.

I dont think it means your weak at the start, but it wont help your start any. You're using momentum as an aid to move the weight, and that doesnt help the all important single.

[Winder]

Wow, quite a discussion going on here.

Perhaps it is best as usual to vary the routine.

Periodization is how I prefer to train for the 3 powerlifts (I will do stranger things wwith BP sometimes), so it would make sense to go for hypertrophy for a few weeks with floor tapping, then to go to the low-rep sets or singles without any tapping.

As for assistance to the deadlift, I prefer to make sure that any weak point is addressed and have noticed sometimes the start is a problem, so then I do deadlifts with my feet on plates, really hitting the quads with that extra 1.5 inches of travel required. Then the next week, I will do rack work to check the finish and grip. This past few weeks, I did not do any rack work as the gym tossed the chalk out, without my knowing. GRRRR. I expect that had a little something to do with getting only 405 and not 420 on Friday.

[Firehawk]

Yeah, you are only as strong as your weaknesses. Good good discussion, I've learned from it. Thanks guys.